> From: allwinner-zh <[email protected]>
> Date: 26 June 2015 08:00:21 CEST
> To: allwinner-zh/media-codec <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [media-codec] Unsuitable copyright text in some source code 
> files (#8)
> Reply-To: allwinner-zh/media-codec 
> <reply+002e3f92e1b2be6b9fa6e059976cde198b80b04e41a5c0e592cf0000000111a4ac7592a169ce0568e...@reply.github.com>
> 
> Thank you very much for your constructive suggestion, it has been fixed.
> 
> —
> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.
> 



Clement

> On 25 Jun 2015, at 17:12, Julian Calaby <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Simos,
> 
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 7:56 PM, 'Simos Xenitellis' via linux-sunxi
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Let's dissect.
> 
> Yes, let's dissect.
> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Andrés Domínguez <[email protected]> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 2015-06-24 21:25 GMT+02:00 Simos Xenitellis <[email protected]>:
>>>> 
>>>> If something needs to get fixed in those repositories
>>>> (https://github.com/allwinner-zh/),
>>>> point it out constructively.
>>> 
>>> Sorry, I didn't make the infringement statement and I don't know about it, 
>>> but
>>> knowing about allwinner's past behavior and libv it's clear that it has some
>>> credibility.
>> 
>> Here you say "it's clear" for a reference to _past behaviour_, while a
>> more appropriate
>> wording would be "I assume". You *assume* it has some credibility.
> 
> Allwinner's past behaviour is very clear. They release stuff without
> checking that it complies with the license they release it under then
> appear to ignore it (or at least don't communicate) when the
> community, us, rightly complains.
> 
> As for libv, arguably he's just the messenger here, the person who
> shouts the loudest about this. The fact that he keeps shouting this
> message when things don't change is commendable.
> 
> And you know what, he's right: GPL violations are serious business and
> ignoring them is simply not a viable strategy for anyone involved. Luc
> has been consistently right on this subject from the very beginning,
> that's credibility.
> 
>> You also use the term "past behavior", which is a term that probably
>> means a different thing
>> to each recipient of these emails. It is not constructive to use such
>> terms; in those
>> TV shows that depict family problems, you get to see family members picking
>> on each other for things that happened in the past, remaining stuck 
>> perpetually
>> for that other thing in the past.
> 
> I outlined the behaviour I, and a lot of other people, perceive from
> companies like Allwinner in my previous email. Again, it's very clear.
> 
> Are you saying that we shouldn't argue about serious legal issues
> because they happened in the past? Yet you attack Luc for the things
> he's done in the past. What exactly are you trying to argue here?
> 
> So maybe you're trying to argue that we should focus less on the past
> and more on the future. Focusing less on the past isn't going to
> happen. These are, again, serious legal issues, they're not going to
> just go away. As for focusing on the future, we've made it very clear
> what we want from Allwinner: (L)GPL compliant code to replace the
> binary blobs they keep releasing. Very simple.
> 
>>> What I criticized was your non constructive attitude with libv
>>> just because you don't like their way to say things, instead of explaining 
>>> why
>>> do you think that you are right and others are wrong.
>> 
>> My point has been that if there are things in the repository that
>> should be fixed,
>> then point them out and explain them.
> 
> This isn't just about some little changes in a repository. This is
> about a systematic company practice of violating the licence
> agreements the software their continued existence is built on.
> 
> As far as I know, every single SoC they've produced since the A10 has
> had GPL issues. _Every_ one. There's a saying: "Once is happenstance.
> Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action." We've seen
> this happen for ~9 different products. This is not a coincidence any
> more.
> 
>>> And no, saying that
>>> header files are easy to fix (it seems that you don't understand that 
>>> changing
>>> license text is not enough, but also fulfilling with the LGPL conditions, 
>>> like
>>> releasing source code) don't matter in this topic. About "Such cases occur
>>> frequently with many companies" (I doubt it) is sad if true.
>> 
>> Let's see a recent case.
>> It's about the MediaTek kernel for the bq E4.5 phone Ubuntu Edition,
>> and the post was written by Carsten Munk,
>> http://mer-project.blogspot.gr/2015/03/some-doubts-about-gpl-licensing-and-bq.html
>> Phoronix covered it with style,
>> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=BQ-Ubuntu-Phone-Bad-Kernel
>> It was about header files and here is the commit that fixed it,
>> https://github.com/bq/aquaris-E4.5/commit/34cf494bca625acad06274c3cba10aca148813c0
> 
> You're missing the forest for the trees: the point is that code with
> proprietary licenses shouldn't have been released in the first place.
> It might be easy to change, the point was that the change didn't
> happen before it left their hands.
> 
> In the case of the BQ Ubuntu phone issue, a company released thousands
> of lines of code and got a couple of bits wrong. In our case we're
> looking at a source release that touched 29 files. 9 were added with
> unusable headers: that's 1/3 of the files they touched and almost 70%
> of the code they released. This sort of thing doesn't happen by
> accident. This was deliberate. Also, it was almost a week ago, if it's
> such a small change, why hasn't it been made?
> 
>> The way I see the whole situation is this: It is true that Allwinner
>> did not make effort over the years
>> for mainline Linux kernel support. Whatever support is there for the
>> A10, A13, A20, etc,
>> is the result of the hard work of this community. Working on mainline
>> support is initially expensive
>> in terms of resources but builds an ecosystem and opens up markets. It
>> makes business sense.
> 
> So where are they? As far as I'm aware, we have _no_ upstream
> contributions from Allwinner whatsoever. The only things they've
> released have been source trees with licence issues or badly written
> board support on top of ancient kernels.
> 
>> As a community, we need to figure out what we need from Allwinner.
>> Do we need specific SoC information so that we do the mainline effort
>> on our own? And among all things that can be asked,
>> we prioritize to those that are really needed at the moment.
>> Do we need Allwinner to fund some developers so that they work
>> full-time on this? We would need to start talking about goals and
>> targets.
> 
> It's obvious what is required:
> 1. Datasheets
> 2. Programming manuals
> 3. GPL compliant drivers
> 4. (L)GPL compliant userspace stuff
> 
> and maybe
> 
> 5. Some on-going contribution to the community
> 
> They have #1 and #2 but aren't bothering to release them to us. I
> believe most of the documentation we have has been obtained through
> third parties. #3 is almost happening, but with just about every code
> release, there's something in there violating the licence. We're
> arguing over their lack of ability on #4 and their employees (with the
> possible exception of Kevin, who pops up every so often to announce
> something) are absent from the community. This isn't hard, there are
> thousands of companies doing it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Julian Calaby
> 
> Email: [email protected]
> Profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/julian.calaby/
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "linux-sunxi" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to [email protected].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"linux-sunxi" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to