On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 3:30 AM, Luc Verhaegen <[email protected]> wrote: > On Thu, Mar 05, 2015 at 02:13:48AM +0200, Simos Xenitellis wrote: >> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Luc Verhaegen <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Wed, Mar 04, 2015 at 02:31:41PM +0200, Simos Xenitellis wrote: >> > Simos, >> > >> > I am corrosive and bitter, but perhaps i am not the toxic one here. >> > >> >> Luc, >> >> Hi. You are not a bad person. We first met at XDS2008, so I have >> somewhat first-hand experience. >> We even had lunch/dinner at the pub and you behaved as a normal human >> being to the waiter; >> I do not think there was trimmed pubic hair in the haggis we all ate. > > I have no recollection of this, or what you mean by the above. >
There were some movie references in there but nevermind. >> You really try to make good things and help the projects that you are active >> in. >> However, in this thing called "community building", it's not your cup of tea. > > While you believe that it is your cup of tea, par excellence, right? > I say that "community building" is something you are bad at it, and you return it back. Since you are starting linux-exynos.org, you need to learn this new thing. >> You try to insult new contributors into doing NewDevice pages on the Wiki >> but you end up sending them away. The worst part is that others in the list >> can see the mess and will not touch the wiki either. Also, edit-war >> with new contributors? > > At one point there was the accidental GPL compliance. Today it is the > mainline effort, the new device howto (and related howtos) and the > number of documented devices that puts sunxi seriously apart from other > soc projects. > The NewDeviceHowto needs to be simplified. As it, it makes sense to *you*, but it is too complicated for the new user. The skill you are missing is that of reading a document in the eyes of another person. > Feel free to show _all_ the instances that an edit war has happened, i > will be happy to explain the backgrounds of them (if you can even find > multiple), and how useful those people have been or would have been. You > mention the svn guys toxic talk below, i will refer to that extensively > in my reply. > You are happy to explain the background. Wearing the hat of the community builder, you DO NOT antagonize new prospective contributors. And especially, since it's not the area of your expertise, you delegate to some other member of the community that is happy to assist. You need these in any community you are making. >> The solution here is to get others to help out and you do *not* get involved. >> >> You might want to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM >> which discusses the subtleties of community building. > > I was wondering when you were going to bring that one up. Watch it > again, and take particular notice of how it talks about documentation > and actual contributions. > We might need to watch together, because the message is about poisonous people and how they damage communities. >> > All we ever see you do is trash me. You have written no code, you have >> > not contributed to the wiki, you only now spend some time on irc to try >> > to clean up your image. >> >> That's an attempt to divert the discussion to me in person. I am not the >> story. > > Should I remind you that this started out as me pointing out Allwinners > role in the blatant LGPL violation that is cedarx, and I wasn't the one > to go for a personal attack? > If there is violation, it's simple to comply by the LGPL and we will be none the wiser. Big companies pay lots of money so they comply to the letter. Like in the TVs and other consumer products as in http://opensource.samsung.com/ The Linux kernel by itself is useless. The only importance of those code dumps is to find out which libraries do not have a usable BSD alternative. >> Unlike what you claim above, I actually contributed. If you really want to go >> through this avenue: if I prove you wrong, you back off entirely from all >> this. > > In comparison to the noise you are making, and how you like to portray > yourself, you have contributed surprisingly little. > So, from having "no contribution", I have "little contribution". >> > You started calling for banishing me, while >> > trying to instigate a fork, almost as soon as you got here. And you try >> > to post about every little positive thing that allwinner does (while >> > allwinner ignores its hard legal responsibilities), to try to take >> > credit for them and to try artificially gain any form of standing here. >> > >> >> Personally I cannot think of a way to gain something here. >> Gain reputation among you all? I respect all of you, but no. > > Really? > Really. >> In your case, you have things to lose from this community. You have invested >> in this project. You have invested so much that you would be even a >> suitable recruit >> for Allwinner. Even having access to internal documents and source >> in order to produce a proper libvdpau. >> But sadly, you come off as a loose cannon. It's scary. >> It does not appear that you have a flexible strategy. In fact it's so >> inflexible that your >> only way to win is if Allwinner says: "fuck my life, get this ssh >> account and take everything". > > Again, you seem to be downplaying as compliance with the licenses > Allwinner depends on fully as "libv and his ridiculous demands". > Allwinner has had loads of time to get there, and probably even more > warnings or full and complete descriptions of the problems. Yet all > we get is these bullshit games with the kernel and cedar code, and some > "sill" (thanks Neal) who just plays political games and little else. > What's missing is the ability to play "(L)GPL-smart" just like other proper companies do. >> > Perhaps you and Allwinner do not realize this. But linux-sunxi does not >> > need Allwinner, Allwinner needs linux-sunxi. What linux-sunxi requires >> > from Allwinner is a legal matter, and a pretty open and shut case at >> > that. Allwinner trying to make their mole a part of this community this >> > crudely or artificially, while so badly messing up the basics, that is >> > not only counterproductive, it is quite preposterous. >> > >> >> I would love to see all source free and open-source. And most importantly, >> all the companies behind it, to actually believe in the benefits. >> Due to v2 in GPL, your stick is not long enough. >> They can adhere to the license but still be stuck. > > Well, let's wait and see how long that stick really is. Last time i had > this postponed as i believed allwinner was actually and finally going to > change. And then that "gpl compliant" kernel happened and now the lgpled > binary happened... Now i hope to see this go all the way. > These issues can go away. Binary drivers can be supplied separately from the kernel, libraries can be split into two or more parts. Even more, Allwinner is a semiconductor company and they are not selling end-user products. Just like MediaTek tells everyone to eff-off and plead the end-user product manufacturers, the same can happen here. >> In addition, an actual strategy to get them all into free and open-source >> is if you make all sort of efforts/compromises to have one SoC >> completely and fully free/open-source. >> Then, promote that SoC as loud as possible, >> so the others would have to follow on their own volition. >> This is especially true for the GPU in ARM SoCs. > > Downplaying again. > > We did all at one point champion sun[457]i. And then Allwinner started > violating the licenses of both uboot and the kernel, increasing with > each generation. This was clearly documented, but you seem to willfully > ignore that now. That link you posted talks about documentation a lot, > try watching it again. > I was not active on this list at that time and I do not know what transpired. So, I will accept both your description and also the case that an avoidable fuck-up in the communication was the cause. > You confuse the (l)gpl compliance issues with opening up GPUs where > there is no legal requirement to do so. And in the case of open source > GPUs, i suggest you read up on my statements about the different ARM GPU > vendors. > >> I noticed in your recent blog post that you are starting linux-exynos.org. > > Go read that again as well. > Thanks, but not joining. Simos -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
