Thank you for the discussion and please keep it going. I have my original photo to scan for more of the original color of the photo. I am waiting for my husband to work on this stupid new laptop. Now, it doesn't want to talk with my scanner.
A few things to think about with the photo... 1. Why are the children holding flowers? I believe Katherine Mitchell told me that they is always a reason for flowers to be in a photo. Maybe she can chime in about it. 2. Look at how poorly the sleeve fits on Herbert's right arm. My grandmother was an outstanding seamstress and dressed her kids to the Tee. Several family members have told me about how strict that she was about her properly dressed children. My mom and I always thought that there was something odd about Herbert in this photo and that has always been on our mind. Last week when I took the photo down, I looked at it under a jeweler's magnifying light. The sleeve is falling over part of his hand and ill fitting. Mom and I have been discussing the photo for a week. Today, she brought up an interesting point that I didn't know. She is the one in our family that takes care of deceased family at the funeral homes. She said that when a person is dressed for the funeral, the clothing is cut up the center back and placed on the body. Next the funeral home closes it. I asked if it was loosely stitched the clothing together or pinned/clipped. She wouldn't reply. 3. I have Herbert's death certificate. South Carolina 99% of the time will mention a pre-existing conditions on the DC. Nothing is mentioned. I have been working on my genealogy for the past month. Strange, I have seen this photo my whole life and never thought about Herbert's photo being PM. The photo has been hanging in my living room for 15 years. We had just assumed that he had a disability. 4. One thing that I am going to try, is to contact this small town's funeral homes and ask them about PM photography at the time. They are all old family owned businesses and actually have records from the early 20th Century. Several years ago on h-costume, we have a big discussion about PM photography. One member, I believe from Pennsylvania, stated that there were family owned studios in her area that still do PM photos. Anyone recall that thread. Penny Ladnier, Owner The Costume Gallery Websites, www.costumegallery.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheCostumeGallery -----Original Message----- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of shashal...@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:51 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: Is this a Postmortem Photo One thing I noticed is you don't see the legs or shoes of the older girl. Is that just a matter of the shadows or was it touched up somehow. Chris Perri In a message dated 1/15/2015 3:36:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, mae...@gmail.com writes: Well, it looks like we have 3 votes for post-mortem and 2 for not. This is so very interesting!! Thank you for this topic, Penny. :) Someone said something like "Ask yourselves, if the question hadn't been asked, would we be seeing so much evidence of death?" No, we wouldn't but that has little to do with this photograph. We wouldn't question it because we would just assume life. This practice of posed family photos with the deceased hasn't been done in so long that it's totally foreign to us. For us, it's something you just don't do. Mourning brooches fall into the same unsettling category. Now, if someone walked around wearing a piece of jewelry made out of their dead friend or family member's hair, people would find it (and the mental state of the person who did so) truly alarming. Keepsakes are acceptable. Pieces from someone's body, not so much. That, and if the photographer did a good job, we shouldn't notice. These days, we do the same thing but it's not a photographer who does it. The deceased are made up to look beautiful for viewing, so they don't "look" dead. So I can't say I agree with the comment that death has a certain look and he doesn't have it. When the qualities are obscured with make up and there's no sign of serious trauma, what does death look like? One can only go by the eyes, right? Please guys, let's keep this discussion scholarly. :) Now, back to Herbie. His right eye fell inward and had probably been like since infancy, which would make him left eye dominant. But while all the others are looking where they should, his left eye (the one that should be focused) seems lost and empty of life. Blindness is a possibility but when the look of the eye is coupled with other elements in the photograph, I still have to keep my vote on the post-mortem side. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Beteena Paradise < bete...@mostlymedieval.com> wrote: > Actually, I was not reading into it. I was not stating that the > children were being yelled at. I was simply giving several possible > alternative reasons for their facial expressions that did not include > being upset that > someone was dead. My point being that you can't assume that the child > in the photo is dead because of the facial expressions of the other children. > And had the PM or not question not been asked, I doubt it would have > been assumed that they were mourning simply based on facial expression. > This seems to happen every time the PM or not is asked about a photo. > Thanatos archive posts these quite often. And every time there are several > people who suddenly see things in the photo that they would not have > seen if the question was not asked. For example, the baby has to be > dead because > the mother looks so sad and she is wearing black. The mother could > have been wearing any color that photographed as dark. The facial > expression was > blank which was not that uncommon for that type of photograph (these > are the ones you have to sit very still for). And even when specifics > are given > as to why the outfit would absolutely not be mourning (trims, > fabrics, styles, etc), people only see death because that is what > they are looking for. > Personally, I like to look at anatomy. We can only guess at emotion, > but we scientifically know what happens to a body after death. > Teena > From: Jacqueline Johnson <jacqueline.m.john...@gmail.com> > To: Historical Costume <h-cost...@indra.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: [h-cost] New Topic: Is this a Postmortem Photo > > Of course a lot is being read into it. That's why we have this list > is it not? After all, you just read a lot into yourself, the idea of > the kids being yelled at...you're right, we can't "know". But we can conjecture. > About history. > > > > _______________________________________________ > h-costume mailing list > h-costume@mail.indra.com > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume > _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
