On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 01:19:34PM +0300, Samuli Suominen wrote > That might be the systemd upstream view point, but definately isn't mine.
Your view and mine don't matter. Upstream's view matters. That's how we end up with fiascos like GNOME and Microsoft's Metro interface. > Fact is that udev can be built and ran standalone without systemd and > you don't need eudev for that. Kay Sievers, *THE LEAD DEVELOPER* specifically says in http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2012-July/006065.html > We promised to keep udev properly *running* as standalone, we never > told that it can be *build* standalone. And that still stands I.e. no promise of being able to build standalone. > If udev upstream makes it impossible to build, or run it standalone > then we need to patch or fork it -- but that's far from now. [...deletia...] > I mean, why the heck fork something too early when upstream still > supports udev on non-systemd init systems?! Let's say that that it happens 2 years from now, after udev has been getting ever more tightly integrated into systemd. At that point, it'll be way too late. The udev source will have all sorts of hooks into systemd, at least at build-time. Creating a stand-alone build in a few weeks would be painful. Another option is to dig up 2-year-old source code for the last stand-alone version of udev and update it in a rush. The old version would depend on libs no-longer in the tree, and other apps would depend on a newer udev. You yourself, pointed out in http://www.mail-archive.com/gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org/msg139485.html > By udev maintainers forcing them to upgrade to the new keymap hwdb > which required version to be raised to up-to-par with udev-206. Imagine 2 years of such updates to catch up with in a few weeks. It's too late to start building the fire-escapes when the fire-alarm goes off. Similarly, if we want a viable alternative udev, that means having it (eudev) maintained and up-to-date and ready at all times. I'm sorry that it has come to this, but the current udev maintainers have made it clear which way they want to go, and it's not the way that I and a lot of other people want to go. Don't blame us for getting out while the getting out is still good. -- Walter Dnes <waltd...@waltdnes.org> I don't run "desktop environments"; I run useful applications
