On 12/04/2016 05:55 PM, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
(OT accounting systems)
On Sun, Dec 04, 2016 at 01:10:16PM -0500, james wrote:
GNUcash is superior to Quickbooks, as it is a 'double entry' accounting
system. Last time I check Quickbooks was not 'double entry' and that is
a big deal in accounting.
QuickBooks is double-entry, and has been for a very long time; It did
used to obscure the fact before, to make accounting 'easier' for
non-accounting people to understand.
For the Foundation, I'm presently using Ledger-CLI [1], but this is a
hurdle for any third-party financial auditing (we should be prepared at
all times for a real financial audit), because they want data in
quickbooks format.
GNUcash can import/export any number of common/proprietary formats
including quickbooks. Quickbooks serves as the largest base of
frustrated users that migrate (routinely) to gnucash, particularly
for custom and unique and open needs. Gnucash, found in the protage tree
has these flags:: chipcard debug doc gnome-keyring hbci mysql ofx
postgres python quotes sqlite
So it looks like you have a choice of sql mechanisms to aid your
customization needs. Combine that with the Android terminal feature and
that means that lots of fiduciary oriented folks at gentoo could file
reports and make/parse entry data, so you have a responsible team of
folks in the 'accountability-matrix' at the gentoo foundation.
If there is a good GNUCash support for non-profit accounting (which does
differ from small-business accounting, see [2]), and matching
documentation for it, I'm VERY interested to know about it.
GNUcash is very open and I've read about all sorts of custom reports and
modules for a plethora of varied needs (gnucash-user). My company needs
are very modest, so I have not ventured into customizing gnucash. When I
take my annual reports to my tax accountant (mid sized Accounting firm)
they are always impressed with the quality of the reports and the fact I
can at anytime print a complete ledger, or specify to/from dates, with
detailed annotations of all events/transactions/anomalies.
In 27 year of having fiduciary responsibilities at a variety of
organizations, none of my teams/companies have been audited by the IRS.
Squeaky, tight-assed accounting and knowing your business, is reflected
in the team and the documents you send to the IRS; it's just that
simple, regardless of organizational structure. A 'tight-ass' is a
tight-ass, reflected in your documents and 2 minutes of browsing by a
seasoned CPA/auditor and they know more about you than you do. In
(tax)accounting, there are only A+ and F participants, imho.
Here are a few links you can ponder, before joining the mailing list and
formulating specific questions as to what you want(need) in an
accounting package for a non-profit.
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports#Get_to_know_Scheme
http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Custom_Reports_Using_Eguile
In your second reference, I do not see any thing that gnucash is not
able to do; mostly with a judicious naming and organization of your
'chart of accounts'. In fact the only report that does not have a
functional equivalent is the 'Statement of Functional Expenses'. But
that should not be too difficult to create; but maybe not to your standards?
Standard reports required for example "Net assets" have a gnucash
equivalent, which could be further customized to your liking.
Things like "Nonprofit expenses are reported by these functions::
Program, management and general, and fundraising", would be handled
structurally as your 'chart of accounts' where you define the structure.
Perhaps you need an accountant to help you define your 'chart of accounts'?
Surely Gentoo has as specific CPA advising the organization?
If you are in So. Calif, I know a cranky old vet, that worked for the
IRS and is brilliant. He's a bit of an 'old bastard', but he has a soft
touch. He's not too computer literate, but he know the IRS inside and
out. He might help you out in exchange for putting gentoo on an old
lappy? In fact, he can show you how to read 'Title 26' of the IRS code
for goodies not found in those little pamphlets that are publish by the
IRS, should you need a 'deep dive', or ever experience an audit.....
But that is no substitute for an extended relationship with a practicing
CPA over the long term. The aforementioned expert can get you where you
need to be, for little in the way of compensation. If you take a mess to
a CPA, it's going to cost theGentoo Foundation (GF) a bundle to sort
out. If you clean it up, first, and walk in with pristine reports and
documentation and the 'old bastard' the CPA will not be able to rape you
(financially). Caveat emptor.
Link (3) looks like a fine organization, but, I'd make sure there is
some real experience on that team, as the pres_elect is prolly going
to smack lots of tech endeavers, centric to Calif. around a bit once in
office; just like Obama did to the christian charities (remember?). In
fact the republican congress, defunded the IRS a few years to stop the
attack by the Obama Administration of 501(c) churches, if you recall
your tax politics. What the first thing Trump is doing? Diddling the tax
codes, as do most presidents. In fact, I'd be a bit surprised if he did
not 'clean up the 501(c) space a bit, just to reclassify many 501(c)
into a 'hobby or a private club', thus bringing in a lots of cash into
the IRS.
Recall, that Lyndon Johnson, put the gag order on the churches in the
1960s (if you speak out politically, you loose your tax-exempt status)
and all executive branches of government have since 'tighten the noose'
since Lydon Johnson on those 501(c) designated churches. Heartless
bastards, including Ronald Reagan, imho. They loose their tax status,
they pay local real-estate property taxes, which would not upset many
local taxing authorities. In accounting, you need to 'read the tea
leaves' of what the new administration intends to do. Trump, like no
other executive before him, directly implicated Lyndon Johnson,
repeatedly, for this abhorrent precedence, emanating for the 1960s. So
do not think for a second, that the IRS will go light on any 501(c).
What you see as noble, will be judged a 'tax dodge' if your records are
not in order; count on it. A squeezing of the 501(c) space, is long past
due and always brings in lots of cash into the IRS.
Why Ledger? The Software Freedom Conservancy started a project aimed at
Non-Profit accounting [3], wrapped around Ledger, which covers far more
of the non-profit nuances than GNUCash does.
That's just stupid, to pine your defense against the IRS around a piece
of software. That foundation better have 'real expertise' as in former
IRS agents as part of the team, or CPA-Lawyers, that know haw to read
and argue Title-26 as a basis of support. The numbers do not make any
difference without fundamental (tax) accounting expertise. In fact they
should support a variety of soft wares that mapp into their knowledge
base of the laws formed around title-26, or it's a fools errand.
Granted I do not know that organization, and they are probably good
people. But when it comes to a scrap with the IRS, fundamental knowledge
of tax codes, is all that counts. Defensibility of intent, when correct
establish means errors are just that, errors that need correcting. An
incorrect collection of timely documentation and the organization can
easily get smacked around (huge fines) and even reclassified as a hobby,
or a good ole boys club.
However, I'm no expert on this, but gnucash is very flexible in how you
create your chart of accounts, but I'm not certain that plus custom
reports and a robust sql interface will allow you to customize gnucash
the way you have in mind, or the way your mentors have in mind.
They included enough documentation in how to specifically configure
Ledger for non-profit usage, so it was easy to get going since I already
used Ledger for my personal accounting.
GNUcash is a lot like Gentoo. You can pretty much do anything with it,
but you have to look at the project, as a labor-of-love. It's FOSS, so
all the code is there, C and scheme, mostly.
Ledger being plain-text based does work very well with version control,
even for multiple parties (I enlisted help to convert old bank
statements).
Gnucash has many robust ways to get data from old/proprietary systems
upload to gnucash or a sql database.
[1] http://www.ledger-cli.org/
[2] http://www.accountingcoach.com/nonprofit-accounting/explanation/1
[3] https://sfconservancy.org/npoacct/
Link (3) sounds great. What is their position on GNUcash? I'd think
they'd support many different FOSS solutions? Your looking for expertise
and it needs to come from someone you can sit down with and work on
things, including all those 'strategic vision' types of records. In my
experiences, when you change accounting systems, you keep the first one
up and running (pristine) and bring up and customized the new accounting
system, side-by-side for at least one full (cycle) year,
if not two.
It sounds to me as though the old 'trust but verify' saying means you GF
needs to have an independent audit on where it is at. In times of
uncertainty, an Audit is fiduciary responsibility that should not be
ignored.
Please let me know (privately) if I can help further. Only fools do not
prepare for an IRS audit. If you prepare ahead of time, they will not
bother the GF. If you don't................. I actually hate accounting
and I *fear the irs* but, I've seen the destruction they leave, when
they choose to smack down tax-dodges...... and 501()c) is no exception.
ymmv.
hth,
James
