Hi Justin, You are certainly correct about this. I’ve been learning to cook the last few years and have a cupboard full of recipes to follow.
I made a directory in the incubator git for us all to share our tools and recipes in the hopes that they are useful. https://github.com/apache/incubator/tree/master/tools I’ll add a few of my simple scripts later. Regards, Dave > On Jun 19, 2019, at 12:31 AM, Justin Mclean <jus...@classsoftware.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > The IPMC does share its experiences and tools it uses, and it's up to > podlings (with their mentors help) to find out how best to use them for their > releases. There's unlikely to be a single solution that fits all podlings > without a lot more work on the podling side, which would probably cause some > loud objections. > > Tooling/automation can't catch all issues with the LICENSE/NOTICE and some > other issues. Plain text is hard to parse and understand by computers, it > often contains errors and is unclear or imprecise. Even if we moved to SPDX, > (or something similar that is easier for code to parse), it would be much > more work for podlings than what we currently do. > > I know that being a bunch of people who like coding, we tend to think that a > solution to an issue can be solved by more code. Most (more than 1/2) of the > severe issues caught by IPMC voting on releases would be very unlikely to be > caught by tooling. (For examples see recent votes). > > Release checking tooling and automating that are useful tools, and will > undoubtedly catch some minor and some severe issues. I'm all for using them, > but the output of tools like Rat (and others) require tuning and > interpretation, and currently, I don't think that on their own can replace > human eyeballs or catch all issues in a release. These tools do have some > room for improvement, but tooling is complementary to manual inspection and > only enhances it, it doesn’t replace it. > > People (adult learners) also learn best by doing, offloading that to > automation means that a podling may not learn the essential values behind why > a release needs to be the way it is or may not even care what those values > are. Is this what we want? > > While some podlings may have an issue with the first release, past this the > majority of podlings don't have any major issues. Around 80% of releases pass > the IPMC vote, ignoring the first couple of releases that means about 90-95% > of all releases pass. So what we are talking about are the exceptions to what > commonly occurs, and I think the problem needs to be framed in that context. > The main areas I believe where this can be improved are mentor engagement, > mentor education and looking into how those values, skills and knowledge are > transferred to the podling. Better documentation, relaxing ASF policy or > putting off stuff until graduation might improve things, but propobably > doesn't solve the core issue. > > When you ask an expert baker how to make bread, they say "just add yeast and > flour and water, kneed, let rise and bake", they may not even give amounts or > times. They know from experience what to do, and may not even be conscious of > that knowledge or of the reasons why they do things in a certain way. They > will change the ingredient amounts based on the current conditions, how humid > it is, the type of flour, how it feels when kneading etc. Again, they may not > be conscious of doing it, let along be able to communicate that information > clearly to others. There are of course exceptions to this, but in general, > they seem to think that it's intuitive and easy to do, and may be puzzled > when other people don't get it. That's why experts sometimes don't make the > best teachers or the best people to pass on their experience, skills and > knowledge. > > Adult learners (in general) want to know how to do something just before they > do it, they tend not to want to know the theory behind it, but want simple, > practical guidance. They also learn in different ways; having it written down > is a start but not enough. The material with the best learning outcomes > engages people in multiple sensory ways to impart the skills and knowledge > required. The best way of learning how to do something is to try it out. > > So back to making bread, you can give someone a step by recipe to work with > and someone will be able to make bread. Their first try may not work, but > they should get better with each try, especially with help. It may not be as > good as made by the professional baker, but it is likely to be good enough to > eat. > > If you want to learn how to make releases, I would suggest you read about the > Apache Way, read ASF policies, go listen to a couple of talks on this from > previous ApacheCons, look at previous release votes here on this list, and > ask your mentors (or IPMC) for advice, but most importantly try doing it for > yourself. Once you worked out the best way to do it, then start automating > that. > > Thanks, > Justin > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
