Hi Kent, comments inline...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kent tegels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 17 January 2003 13:28
> To: dotnet
> Subject: RE: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
>
>
> Chant the mantra with me:
>
> Good language is worth a dime.
> Good technology is worth a quarter.
> Good design is worth a dollar.
Makes sense!
> (Conversion to local currency as suitable :) )
>
> In a similar situation, I probably start out by figure out
> how to use interop to wrap the existing COM+ objects up as
> Web Services...
We intend to re-write all our existing COM DLL's in c# (if we can?) so
that each one of us can work on them if needed, not just the ones who
know Delphi.
> Then would have moved on writing the
> "pre-client" as an ASP.NET application that did any other
> processing need and transformation of the data to HTML for
> the client.
Yeah, start off with something small and lightweight just to test the
stuff out with.
> Then redo the components. Then, understanding how
> the system works, you can rewrite it as needed.
>
> In this scenario, C#, VB or Delphi could be used. Ideally,
> the choice of language is more about being comfortable with
> being "best."
Again, I hopefully with us all using c# we should be able to maximise
our time. We're all keen to learn something new anyway, 6+ years of
VB-based development get a little dull!
> Using the wrong technology won't kill you, but
> it can either make things easier or more difficult. Having a
> bad architecture or a bad design can easily kill you with a
> project like this.
>
> Having done project like this: let me offer this. It's best
> to start with small bites when trying to eat an elephant. Do
> the simple stuff worth to get familiar with using the tools.
Agreed. I'm of course aiming to start with basic database interigation
to get to grips with c#.
> A lot of your excitiment (good and bad) is likely to come
> from learning the new stuff rather than from what you already know.
>
> I'd definitely recommend Alex and Dave's "ASP.NET Distributed
> Data Applications" too!
Cheers; I'll make a note of that.
> You're correct, more or less, about having COM objects serve
> up SOAP messages. But interfacing to COM directly can be
> messy if your not using an MS platform if you have a firewall
> between the parts. That's why I'd go to web services instead.
> Web Services use SOAP to do their work. Your other
> assumptions seem right on the money.
Hang on, I thought WebServices were just COMponents living independently
on a server that could be requested like:
Dim strData
strData =
getCustomerList("http://webservices.xxx.com/customers.somethingorother";)
...and the data sent back is XML?
Have I got it wrong?
> XSLT is really the cadalyst in converting XML to HTML (or
> just about anything else.) You can apply an XSLT to a SOAP to
> format data if you like. Using .NET, you don't have to
> bother. It will break down the messages into more directly
> usable things -- much like yest breaks down sugar in brewing beer.
>
> Helpful?
> kt
Very! Hoping you don't mind more questions!
Cheers,
.ben
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Joyce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:50 PM
> To: dotnet
> Subject: RE: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
>
>
> Hi Kent.
>
> The project is very real and very big. There are three
> developers working on in, myself and two others. The other
> two chaps are from a strong Delphi background, and as I
> mentioned I am primarily a VB/ASP man. We've decided to
> start writing any new modules for our CRM product in C# with
> view to do a complete re-write.
>
> It makes sense for us all to learn this together so we can
> work more efficiently. Currently all the COM libraries are
> written in Delphi so there is a certain element of waiting
> for those bits to be completed before progressing.
>
> My understanding in that the data can be served up by COM
> objects (written in C#) to a variety of clients via SOAP. Am
> I right in thinking that we can ship all the real processing
> and data collection to the server, leaving us with very
> lightweight clients?
>
> I'm not quite sure where XSLT fits in; is this something to
> do with automating the production of HTML pages using XML as
> the datasource, something like that?
>
> I appreciate any advice you can offer to a .net newbie and
> his collegues
> :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> .ben
>
> --
> ben joyce // [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +44 (0)7958 933718 //
> http://www.babelfish.co.uk
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ktegels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: 16 January 2003 18:47
> > To: dotnet
> > Subject: RE: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
> >
> >
> > Ben,
> >
> > Thanks for the props about Wrox books!
> >
> > C# is worth getting a book on if you'd not done classic C or
> > C++ before. If
> > you've done C or Perl, C# is pretty much cake.
> > You really need two XML books in my mind. First is any
> basic primer on
> > XML. Second is Tennison's "Beginning XSLT." No doubt that Dr. T
> > knows her stuff
> > and she's great writer.
> > Web services is different horse. If you're going to write
> > them with an MS
> > tool, I really like our beginning web services books. If your
> > going to use
> > some other platform (say Java) be prepared for a lot of work
> > and reading. I
> > agree that Web Services really aren't hard to write, there's
> > just a million
> > ways to botch it up. :)
> >
> > The best thing to do IMHO is to do. Find something you want
> to write a
> > web service for and go for it. MS makes it easy, fast, and harder
> > to customer.
> > Other tools -- IMHO-- make it harder, slower but more rewarding.
> >
> > Kent Tegels
> > Contributing Author, Wrox Press
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Joyce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 11:54 AM
> > To: dotnet
> > Subject: RE: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
> >
> >
> > Yeah, Wrox are usually pretty good.
> >
> > As work is paying for it I'm thinking of getting this:
> > http://www.wrox.com/books/1861007329.htm
> >
> > I'm from a strong ASP/VB/COM/SQL background (5 years) and have
> > recently started using PHP, hopefully the jump to C#
> shouldn't be too
> > tricky. The Web
> > Services stuff sounds funky, I'm dying to have a go.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > .ben
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Travis D. Falls [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: 16 January 2003 17:50
> > > To: dotnet
> > > Subject: RE: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
> > >
> > >
> > > Ben,
> > > Before you buy a book check out the web for soap and xml
> tutorials.
> > > Soap is just a protocol/standard that you format you xml
> in. Once
> > > you understand basic xml (it isn't that complicated it is just a
> > > standard way to mark up plain text) you will can just read up on
> > > soap on the web. They you can buy or find a book on C# is should
> > > have a section on xml and touch on soap. The wrox (big
> red books)
> > > should have a good section. I have done soap and xml before, and
> > > accessed then via java and vb.net. I am sure C# is the same.
> > >
> > > travis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ben joyce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 12:20 PM
> > > To: dotnet
> > > Subject: c#, xml, SOAP, etc
> > >
> > > hi all.
> > >
> > > just wondering if anyone can recommend a good book for
> learning how
> > > to build & use SOAP objects in c#/xml. My idea is that my
> > > app/website (plan to write both) will request data via SOAP. c#
> > > will talk to the database and return data in XML back to
> the calling
>
> > > code, where is is displayed.
> > >
> > > I've never used c#, very little XML and not touched SOAP so a good
> > > book is needed!
> > >
> > > suggestions appreciated!
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > .ben
> > >
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