On 22/09/2020 19:58, Olivier Hallot wrote:
> HI Dave
>
> Em 22/09/2020 12:49, DaveB escreveu:
>> On 22/09/2020 15:55, Olivier Hallot wrote:
>>> Hi Dave
>>>
>>> Em 22/09/2020 09:51, DaveB escreveu:
>>>> Sorry folks, I am back here again with yet another proposal.
>>>>
>>>> It is starting to become our practice to link published guides on the
>>>> website and wiki back to the Published Folder on the Documentation
>>>> NextCloud instance. In *theory* this should not create any issues and is
>>>> an extremely easy and convenient (lazy) mechanism for us to use.
>>>
>>> Scattering files in several places increases work on file tracking, IMO.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am currently involved with the on-line training of two people, who
>>>> have been complaining that links I have given them to website and wiki
>>>> copies of the documentation don't allow them to DIRECTLY download the
>>>> required guides, without getting into a "jumping through hoops"
>>>> work-around to download the required material. I encountered this myself
>>>> when trying to offer Bernard John Poole some guidance on the mailing
>>>> list. Namely that clicking the link-back links opens the files in the
>>>> web browser and a browser right click "Save As" offers a weirdly
>>>> formatted copy of the NextCloud html file.
>>>
>>> Links to ODF files in stored in TDF Nextcloud triggers the LibreOffice
>>> Online module and opens LibreOffice Online inside the browser. That
>>> said, you cannot "save as" the file from the browser menu (it will save
>>> the URL content which is an html gibberish). You must choose the menu
>>> File - Download to be able to save the copy of the document in your
>>> computer with the bonus of selecting the file format.
>>>
>>> Links to PDF files will open the pdfviewer of NextCloud which just add a
>>> blue header in the page and has a Download button on the right. As far
>>> as I can see, the PDF file is rendered inside the browser. Likewise, do
>>> not use the browser "save as", but use the Download button instead.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even though the link-back mechanism is convenient for us, it really
>>>> doesn't take a great deal of work to upload the published material to
>>>> the wiki/website, but does make life much easier for our readers.
>>>>
>>>> So can we please end this method of linking back to the NextCloud instance.
>>>
>>> I beg to differ, not diminishing your remarks, but the links to
>>> NextCloud is also a display of the LibreOffice technology and a live
>>> example of the online features.
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>
>> Hi Oliver,
>>
>> Agreed, it is "*nice*" to showcase LibreOffice technology, but that is
>> not what our readers who seek to obtain a copies of our documentation
>> are interested in.
>>
>> In principle I also oppose "Scattering files in several places", which
>> is in part why I proposed the simplification of the next cloud directory
>> structure. However, when we get fist hand negative feedback about
>> something we do purely for our own convenience, I think it's time review
>> what is best for our readers. Uploading copies of the documentation
>> files to the wiki/website has never been a problem or an issue in the
>> past and there is no clear reason, other than it is useful for our own
>> convenience, to change that now just because we can.
>>
>> If we continue this link-back method let us at least see if we can find
>> some way of informing our readers of the work-around steps to download
>> copies of our documentation and not some vague entry in a wiki page.
>> Currently, our links dump them at (to them) an unknown destination and
>> leaves them to work it out from there. I seriously doubt that our QA/UX
>> teams would congratulate us for adopting such a policy.
>>
>> Sorry to be a PITA, but I am pushing these things, because I see them as
>> being important for the benefit of our readers. That is not to say that
>> you don't share that same interest, but we hold different views about
>> how to serve those interests.
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Dave
>>
>
> No PITA at all. Your voice is important.
>
> I'm open to do whatever it is necessary to make people get the
> documentation the easiest way. Actually we have several places to get
> the guides:
>
> A) The documentation website:
> https://documentation.libreoffice.org
>
> B) The wiki page
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications
>
> C) The extension site
> https://extensions.libreoffice.org/?Tags%5B%5D=53
>
> D) Nextcloud folders when shared read-only in public.
>
> There are also 2 personas for using our documentation
>
> 1) End users (wants the book in PDF or printed, and then Bye!)
>
> 2) Contributors/professionals/translators that want the above + source
> files.
>
> I' prefer to move this much needed debate to the Doc Meeting this
> Thursday (I hope all parties interested can attend), because each 1,2
> will use a different A,B,C,D. Naturally each web service has advantages
> and drawbacks in maintenance and user experience.
>
> Kind regards
Hi Olivier,
I am not aware if this link-back arrangement was discussed prior to
implementation, but I agree this is something we should discuss at the
next meeting.
My suggestion is going to be along the lines:
* We satisfy persona 1 by placing PDF copies of the published guides
in one location such as the wiki and link-back to them from the
LO website and Extension site.
* Persona 2 in most cases will already have a reasonable understanding
of documentation development and if not they should be guided to
NextCloud.
I have a question about the documentation being made available on the
Extensions site, but I will start another thread on that subject.
Best Regards
Dave
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