Hi Peter and Team, My responses are given in-line.
-------- Original Message -------- From: Peter Schofield [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2020, 07:50 UTC To: DaveB Cc: LibreOffice Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the NextCloud workflow > Hello Dave and Samantha > > I am with you and agree to the proposed changes, despite having slight > disagreement about folders. That's good to know. I am sure we can find a way to resolve small disagreements. > Work in Progress is definitely the best name for a working folder. Archive > folder fits the bill perfectly. WIP (Work in Progress) seems to be a more accurate description of the folder's purpose and I can think of no good reason to change the Archive folder name. > File naming is the only thing that bugs me. Adding the date into the filename > is not necessary and does make it cumbersome. As I said in my reply to Sam, I am comfortable with whatever file naming convention the team reaches consensus on. > Adding a version number (01,02, etc) to the filename would be insurance IF > someone forgets to move old files into Archive. Sure. Each filename being being unique is the only thing I consider to be important. How that unique identity is defined is for the team to agree upon. > As I am already working on th Impress Guide as a whole, I suppose I have > editorial control??? > > Also, I am starting to work on the Draw Guide, which, in theory, I also have > editorial control??? > > The Draw Guide and Impress Guide are very similar and I am swapping > information between the two guides. Since you have taken on the (IMO somewhat onerous) task of almost single-handedly rewriting those guides, I doubt that anyone would question that you should have editorial control of those guides. I have been asked to take on the role of "Guide Coordinator" for version 7 of the Getting Started Guide, but I have no intention (or ability) to single-handedly rewrite all the chapters for that guide. I was very impressed by Steve Fanning's management of the Calc Guide, but I doubt that I will be able to make the same level of commitment to Getting Started Guide. More on this point in the next few days. > Regards > Peter Schofield > [email protected] Best Regards Dave >> On 14 Sep 2020, at 21:09, DaveB <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi Sam, >> >> Many thanks for your input. My responses are given in-line with the >> points in your original message. >> >> On 12/09/2020 21:03, Samantha Hamilton wrote: >>> I think ultimately this is a discussion about versioning and collaboration >>> in a program (NextCloud) that is not a collaborative version control site. >>> I think that simplifying the folder structure would be helpful to organize >>> the iterations of a document, but it would also mean that the file naming >>> convention would be very important for versioning. >> >> Let's move away from the unnecessary complications of file naming and >> versioning. The only important point is that each edit of a chapter file >> is given a unique file name. If having other identifying characters in >> the file name is what the team wants, I am fine with that. >> >> It doesn't matter if this is the first draft of a chapter, or the 50th >> edited review. The file is uploaded to the Feedback/Work in Progress >> folder and if a previous copy of that chapter file exists in the >> Feedback/Work in Progress folder, that previous copy is IMMEDIATELY >> moved to the Archive folder. At any one time there will only ever be one >> (last edited) copy of any chapter file in the Feedback/Work In Progress >> folder of any book and for anyone wishing to review, revise or otherwise >> edit that chapter this is the file they take. >> >>> As far as my understanding goes, we [would] have a process like this: >>> >>> 1. A new/original document is made by a Creator (this person has editorial >>> ‘control’ over said document) >> >> I seem to have missed the memo about "editorial control". >> Does this mean: >> * If I am the first to start work on a chapter for a new version of a >> guide, do I get "editorial control" for just that chapter or all >> chapters for that version of the guide? >> * If I take on the role of Guide Coordinator, do I get "editorial >> control" of that guide? >> >>> 2. When ready for review it is put into the “Feedback” (or “Work in >>> Progress”) folder, with a naming scheme such as: >>> >>> *<guide name abbreviation><version number><chapter number>_<creators >>> initials>_<date of submission>.extension* >>> >>> *For example:* *IG706_AB_1Sept2020.odt* >> >> It's unclear what benefit would be gained from this file naming >> convention. The file will already have a modified date and the >> author/reviewer is already identified in the status sheet and the >> "Contributors" section of the chapter document. As I said above, "If >> having other identifying characters in the file name is what the team >> wants, I am fine with that". >> >>> 3. A Reviewer downloads a copy (leaving a copy in the folder) and performs >>> edits, reviews, etc. >>> >>> 4. When complete, the Reviewer uploads the newly edited file back to the >>> same “Feedback” folder, >> >> Yes and the reviewer IMMEDIATELY moves any previous copy to the Archive >> storage folder. >> >>> with a naming convention such as: >>> *<guide name abbreviation><version number><chapter number>_<creators >>> initials>_<reviewers initials>_<date of submission>.extension* >>> >>> *For example: IG706_AB_CD_2Sept2020.odt* >> >> Please see my previous comments regarding file naming. >> >>> 5. The Creator accepts, confirms, or rejects changes as necessary, then >>> saves this to the “Feedback” folder as a new file, with a naming scheme >>> such as: >>> >>> *<guide name abbreviation><version number><chapter number>_<creators >>> initials>_<date of submission>.extension* >>> >>> *For example: IG706_AB_3Sept2020.odt* >> >> See my previous comments about "editorial control". >> >>> 6. At the end of this cycle, this single folder would contain 3 versions of >>> the created file. And would look like: >>> >>> *IG706_AB_1Sept2020.odt* >>> *IG706_AB_CD_2Sept2020.odt**IG706_AB_3Sept2020.odt* >> >> No. My earlier comment: "At any one time there will only ever be one >> (last edited) copy of any chapter file in the Feedback/Work In Progress >> folder of any book". All other draft and review copies will already be >> in the Archive storage folder. >> >>> And then we repeat the process. All email messages stay the same, and the >>> status spreadsheet stays the same. This would mean that until a chapter is >>> published we all have access to all previous copies, organized by date, and >>> with contributor identification. >> >> My proposal makes no reference to changing anything other than the >> directory structure and the workflow on NextCloud. At all times every >> one of us has access to every file in the Documentation NextCloud >> instance and my proposal will do nothing to change that. >> >>> Then the files go to the Archives? >> >> No. The Archive sub-directory would be a continuous backup store for all >> previous copies. >> >>> Dave, is this the process that you are thinking of? >> >> It seems I did a really poor job of documenting my proposal. >> >>> Or am I misunderstanding the use of the Archive folder? >> >> There is nothing special about the sub-directory having the name >> Archive. It could just as easily be renamed Dump, Backup or any >> meaningful name and still serve the same purpose. >> >>> All the best, >>> Sam. >>> >>> Samantha Hamilton >>> darling docs >>> >>> <http://www.darlingdocs.com> <https://github.com/samanthahamilton>[image: >>> www.linkedin.com/in/shamilton-darlingdocs] >>> <http://www.linkedin.com/in/shamilton-darlingdocs> >> >> Best Regards >> Dave >> >>> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM User <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>> I am not particularly concerned about the naming of files, my only real >>>> interest is that there is a simple straight forward and reliable way to >>>> identify the last edition of the file and where a previous edition of >>>> that file exists, it can easily be researched and/or recovered. >>>> All files with any name difference automatically acquire a modified >>>> date, so identification is extremely simple. Inclusion of the author >>>> initials serves no real worthwhile purpose, this identification is >>>> already taken care of in the status sheet and the contributors section >>>> of every guide chapter. Part of the reasoning behind my suggestion that >>>> we all identify our initials to names on the status sheets. >>>> >>>> If we had even a dozen or more regular contributors then a rigorous file >>>> naming regime might serve a useful purpose. >>>> >>>> Having files stored in just 2 sub-directories (sub-folders) eliminates >>>> any possibility of the same file being edited twice. Personally I don't >>>> give a "flying fig" what name the folders are given. If it were up to me >>>> I would name them WIP (Work In Progress) to hold the most recently >>>> edited editions of the files and Archive to hold previously edited >>>> editions. I am yet to be convinced about the value of the Published >>>> folder, but my view on that point is of no importance. >>>> >>>> My one and only motivation is to simplify our workflow. To me >>>> simplification and ease of understanding of our workflow is an important >>>> part of getting and keeping new contributors involved. New contributors >>>> are what the team will always need, because "creaking old geezers" like >>>> you and I who understand how things were done "In the good ol' days" >>>> won't be here forever. >>>> >>>> OK, I've had my 2c ramble. Now I will leave it to the rest of the team >>>> to decide what we do. >>>> >>>> Best Regards >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> PS. I am subscribed, to the list so the private mail is unnecessary :) >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>> From: Peter Schofield [mailto:[email protected]] >>>> Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2020, 10:38 UTC >>>> To: DaveB >>>> Cc: LibreOffice >>>> Subject: [libreoffice-documentation] Proposal for a change to the >>>> NextCloud workflow >>>> >>>>> Hello Dave >>>>> >>>>> Another thought to help in keeping track of files and this comes from >>>> the day when I used to earn money in tech writing. >>>>> >>>>> First draft of a file and its filename use a sequence number and the >>>> creator’s initials, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-01-PS.odt. >>>>> First review of a file, the reviewer adds their initials to the >>>> filename, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-01-PS-DB.odt. >>>>> >>>>> Second draft of a file, the sequence number increases changing the >>>> filename and the creator adds their initials, for example >>>> IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-02-PS.odt. >>>>> Second review of a file, the reviewer adds their initials to the >>>> filename, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects-02-PS-DB.odt. >>>>> >>>>> When the file is published, the filename does not have a sequence number >>>> or any initials added, for example IG7005-ManagingGraphicObjects.odt. >>>>> >>>>> This does give a good indication of which file is which and prevents the >>>> wrong file from being edited again. It worked very well for me and a team >>>> of technical writers. >>>>> >>>>> We will agree to disagree about folder names, but still think Feedback >>>> is the wrong name to use. A Published folder is a definite. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Peter Schofield >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 11 Sep 2020, at 16:18, DaveB <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> For the benefit of those who were not part of yesterday's team meeting, >>>>>> or haven't yet read the minutes. I put forward a proposal as per the >>>>>> subject line of this post. >>>>>> >>>>>> A copy of my proposal is available from: >>>>>> https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/9FqwWK3m6Cy2zHQ >>>>>> The proposal has 5 points together with my rational for the changes. >>>>>> >>>>>> If there are no reasonable objections, I propose to start updating our >>>>>> NextCloud instance on Friday, 18th. September. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>> Dave -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected] Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/documentation/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
