Hi Mariusz, On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 8:47 PM Mariusz Felisiak <felisiak.mari...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm quite surprised that you've started a new thread for something that was > already discussed, you could always add a comment to the existing thread e.g. > https://groups.google.com/g/django-developers/c/dg8BUVHKOo4/m/5uFVmdWCAwAJ
I was not aware of this thread, thanks for linking it. >> I wanted to share the frustration of seeing yet another great new ORM >> feature blocked due to Oracle compatibility: >> https://github.com/django/django/pull/16417 > I'm not sure how you reached this conclusion. This is not blocked due because > of Oracle compatibility. I will review it and try to merge it before the > Django 5.0 feature freeze. You have to be patient, it has nothing to do with > Oracle It was not my intention to push you into reviewing this PR given how much you already do. But it seems to me that without Oracle compatibility this functionality would have been ready for a long time. However, this reflection of mine was born after seeing the difficulty of the original contributor to add support to Oracle, at the same time I also watch again Carlton's keynote at PyCon Italia 2023 because the videos have recently been published. Lastly, while volunteering at the DSF booth at EuroPython 2023, I happened to meet an Oracle Django developer for the first time, who admitted that he had never contributed to the Oracle backend itself. >> Over the last few months, I've tried to encourage newcomers and young users >> to contribute to Django and they almost always ran into the need to provide >> compatibility to Oracle, so much so that they eventually gave up >> contributing. > Really? Django is not only the ORM. It is easy to demonize Oracle. I'm > working with contributors on daily basis, and don't remember anyone who > would resign because we have builtin Oracle backend. We don't have much more > open tickets in the Oracle backend then in others. The number of unsupported > features is similar to SQLite or MySQL. In my personal experience, the people I collaborate with at work or meet in the local communities where I go to talk about Django all have experience with Open Source databases and none have ever worked with Oracle, which makes it very difficult for them to try to contribute in Django's ORM why should they ensure compatibility for this DB without ever having seen it. >> The point is that I think Oracle is a historical anomaly among the database >> backends supported by Django because it is the only one that is not Open >> Source, it has irrelevant usage numbers > It's not an anomaly. Oracle support was a conscious decision, keeping the ORM > features Oracle-compatible is a good battlefield, that helps keeping the ORM > friendly for 3rd-party database backends as we have more feature flags and > hooks for custom behaviors. I think this would be the same if the Oracle backend was a third-party package, perhaps maintained by the same company >> ... and the company that earns from it does not contribute in any way to its >> maintenance or support > Should be also drop support for Windows for exactly the same reason? > (rhetorical question) I don't know, I haven't used Windows since 2000 :-) Anyway, tornado to talk about Database, SQL Server is a third-party package >> I, therefore, suggest that we start a discussion on removing Oracle from >> supported databases. > This was already discussed. I'm still strongly against it. Thank you for your point of view, and also for all the extra work you do to help Django contributors who are having trouble making their functionality compatible with Oracle. I reiterate that my only intention was to understand if I were the only one to have this point of view without wanting to criticize anyone's work or past choices, things simply change in the field of information technology and choices could be reviewed after years. Ciao, Paolo -- Paolo Melchiorre https://www.paulox.net -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers (Contributions to Django itself)" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/django-developers/CAKFO%2Bx6VjKOBpUtujXh-SJ3wjfO3sfLz4ekMRukiBNfy2W-FMw%40mail.gmail.com.
