Hi Tom -- It really sucks that when I say "if you have feedback please send it over here", you hear "I'm not listening".
I'm sorry, but I don't have the mental bandwidth to follow 20,000 individual tickets. It's impossible. I just fucking can't do it. Believe me, I've tried, and failed, many times. I'm sorry I'm such a slacker. I *do* have the bandwidth to follow a single mailing list. If you want my attention, that's how you get it. If you really want to help, if you really want to get a positive outcome from this, then how about you give me a hand and follow (part of) Trac for me? Watch some tickets, and if/when they get stalled bring them here. Jacob On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Tom Evans <tevans...@googlemail.com> wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Russell Keith-Magee > <russ...@keith-magee.com> wrote: >> My apologies if I wasn't clear - that wasn't what I was saying at all. What >> I meant is that we can't institute a process like "Every core developer must >> spend 4 hours per week triaging tickets or they will lose their core >> developer status". This would be a completely reasonable course of action if >> you were a paid employee -- your employer is just telling you what you have >> to do to get paid -- but that dynamic doesn't exist in a volunteer project. >> In a volunteer project the only reason the "hard" stuff gets done is because >> people volunteer to do it. >> >> However, in this case, Jacob *did* give a detailed explanation: >> >> "This seems like a needless function; it's already possible to just >> re-look-up the object from the database." >> >> It was rejected because the need wasn't clear. Simon then reopened the >> ticket, and gave a detailed use case, to which Jacob responded: >> >> "I'm really not convinced by Simon's use case -- adding "reload()" only >> saves you a single line of code. Let's do our best to keep Django as svelte >> as possible." >> >> What more detail should Jacob have provided? The feature isn't that complex. >> It's not like he's got an opportunity to present a PhD thesis in relational >> algebra. It's a simple feature, which has been rejected because in Jacob's >> opinion, it can be achieved in other ways. >> >> Jacob didn't explicitly call for a discussion on the mailing list. Perhaps >> he should have. However, when the ticket was reopened for the second time, >> James Bennett (ubernostrum) pointed at project policy to have these >> discussions on the mailing list. >> >> What should James have done instead? >> > > Perhaps the issue is that there is a feeling that no-one is listening > to the community? This particular issue was shot down because a core > dev didn't like the style of the change. They felt that adding a > function to be explicit about reloading an object is wrong since it > bloats django. > > This was decided 5 years ago, communicated in a single line. Any > attempt by the community to say "wait a minute, I'd really like this" > gets shot down and told to bring it here, or worse. 3 days ago, the > response was "If you want it, you have to make it happen." > > Perhaps this wasn't clear, that was a member of your community trying > to make it happen. There have been several attempts over the past 5 > years by people trying to make it happen. Each time someone has tried > to make it happen, after the initial attempt, the ticket has been > re-closed "BFDL already said no, just go away". > > In this case, happy days, a few hours of discussion on the ML, and > this ticket is now accepted. You need to understand that not all of > your users are comfortable or capable of advocating on mailing lists, > but are happy to contribute to tickets. With this ticket, 5 years of > asking for this feature on the ticket was pointless, and this is what > the OP is railing against. You gave people a way to contribute, but > then ignore them. Perhaps "ML or GTFO" if not the right approach for > attracting contributors. > > Cheers > > Tom > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to django-developers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to django-developers@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
