Just realised that you replied privately; let's take it back to the list.
> -----Original Message----- > From: Mitch Curtis > Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 3:31 PM > To: Rafael Roquetto <raf...@roquetto.com> > Subject: RE: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rafael Roquetto <raf...@roquetto.com> > > Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 2:42 PM > > To: Mitch Curtis <mitch.cur...@qt.io> > > Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct > > > > > > > > On 10/25/18 9:22 PM, Mitch Curtis wrote: > > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Development <development-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io@qt- > > >> project.org> On Behalf Of NIkolai Marchenko > > >> Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 12:13 PM > > >> To: Konstantin Tokarev <annu...@yandex.ru> > > >> Cc: Qt development mailing list <development@qt-project.org> > > >> Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct > > <snip> > > > Rafael said: > > > > > > "During all these years contributing to Qt I have encountered many > > > times > > strong criticism in gerrit - some people were very harsh or > > *seemingly* rude > > - or that was what I thought, until I realized that: 1) it was just > > their modus operandi; 2) at the end of the day, their comments made > > sense and improved my code; 3) they were not butt hurt when roles were > reversed." > > > > > > To me it seems like you guys are saying: > > > > > > "I don't care if this person treats me like crap because they sure can > code." > > > > Exactly, I don't care as long as certain boundaries, such as name > > calling, are not crossed. > > Great! > > > And even if, it really depends on the context: > > Wait, what? > > > I would rather communicate with Linus Torvalds than having to on ice > > with someone else for the sake of politeness. And just to be clear, I > > am extrapolating here. > > That's a really odd analogy to choose. > > If you are reviewing a patch or communicating with someone within this > community, you're doing so by choice: either because you're being paid to or > you're here on your own free time. Both are choices. The point of this code > of conduct is not to limit *who* you communicate with, but *how* you treat > those people who you communicate with in the course of contributing. It's to > help people who are getting treated like crap by the "expert" developers > feel more safe in the community by making it clear what will not be accepted. > > > > > > > I'm happy for you if you've gotten this far in life and decided that > > > you like > > being insulted in exchange for someone reviewing your code (or even > > just asking a question on IRC), but personally I do not like it. I'm > > more than capable of standing up for myself, but other people who feel > > the same way may not feel comfortable speaking out. > > > > > > What you're also saying is: > > > > > > "You (the Qt Project) aren't going to do anything about their > > > behaviour > > because they contribute good code." > > > > I never said that. See my answer to Simon. Alas, this is something I > > vehemently oppose. Also, to be clear: I am not suggesting we suck it > > up and do not take action. I was just suggesting that maybe a CoC is > > not the way to go. > > It was meant for Nikolai, just bad quoting on my behalf. > > > > > > > Which sadly is true. Really, your question seems almost rhetorical > > > given > > this. It's even explicitly acknowledged on the home page of the thing > > that we're basing our code of conduct on: > > > > > > "People with “merit” are often excused for their bad behavior in > > > public > > spaces based on the value of their technical contributions." > > > > And they shouldn't be excused. But this goes both ways. There are a > > lot of people who like to turn everything into a speech problem. This > > is when we have to be tolerant and respectful. Sadly, indeed, in the > > real world things don't work quite like that. > > Yes, so: finding a balance. I agree. I just want to get my job done and > improve > as a developer. I don't think anyone wants to force people to be overly > polite, they just don't want to be attacked. Constructive criticism without > snarkiness is personally all I'm asking for. > > > > > > > - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/ > > > > > > Disregarding all of the other factors (racism, sexual identity, age, > > > etc.) and > > just keeping it purely about treating other people with respect: the > > statement above is absolutely true. > > > > > > Honestly I have my doubts whether this code of conduct will actually > > achieve its most basic goal, given that many people have apparently > > tried to intervene with the people who treat others poorly and nothing > > has come of it (although people will tell you it's gotten better). I > > hope it does, but I've been in the community and around these people > > long enough to know that it probably won't. Reading through these > > replies, it's also clear that a large amount of the people responding > > are quite happy with the status quo, which, although not surprising to me, > is always disheartening. > > > > > > I haven't seen any racism, discrimination, etc., but there are > > > definitely > > people within the community whose behaviour is such that other > > developers will avoid interacting with them, even if it would have > > likely improved the quality of their work or got that work done > > faster. I doubt you'll hear from those people though, because they > > just want to get their job done -- which is perfectly understandable, > > but does not excuse the behaviour of the people they try to avoid. > > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:06 PM Konstantin Tokarev > > >> <annu...@yandex.ru <mailto:annu...@yandex.ru> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> 25.10.2018, 13:01, "NIkolai Marchenko" <enmarantis...@gmail.com > > >> <mailto:enmarantis...@gmail.com> >: > > >> >> And btw, we have had a clear majority in favour of adding a CoC > > >> at the Contributor Summit > > >> > > > >> > It seems very wrong to make such decisions at conventions where > > >> only a small part of the contributors can participate. > > >> > Especially for something as big and divisive > > >> > > >> +1 > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Regards, > > >> Konstantin > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Development mailing list > > > Development@qt-project.org > > > http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development > > > _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
