Gary, I am not a native speaker, but I find your tone sarcastic. I kindly
ask you to adjust it.

[My comments are inline.]

On Tue, Sep 5, 2023 at 6:21 PM Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I should be able to unzip and build, NOT unzip and then scratch my head,
> look for other files like zips and tars...


There is no TAR anywhere. There is only the distribution ZIP containing
`src.zip`, binary files (JARs) and so on. If you prefer `src` in a folder
rather than a compressed file, we can make that happen. The only
downside is those who download a distribution only for the JARs will also
need to reserve disk space for sources too, hence why I put them in a
compressed file. (This convention is practiced by JDK distributions too.)

sigh, this whole dev process is
> getting WORSE.
>

Unless you define what is worse, I cannot address it.

And we want to spread sources in a buch of repos, bleh.


I am the only one in the PMC that agrees with your points regarding
mono-repo, and, together with Piotr, I am trying to find a way forward
without breaking the repository. No decisions have been made yet. I kindly
ask you to understand that everybody is trying to help with their best
intentions.


> All Apache and FOSS projects I've seen just have a src zip with a snapshot
> repo minus some files, not some byzantine structure.


> How is this nested zip mess HELPING users and lowering the bar to entry?
>

I can explain this. This is what
https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/logging/log4j/2.19.0 looks like:

apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.tar.gz
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.tar.gz.asc
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.tar.gz.sha256
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.tar.gz.sha512
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.zip
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.zip.asc
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.zip.sha256
apache-log4j-2.19.0-bin.zip.sha512
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.tar.gz
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.tar.gz.asc
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.tar.gz.sha256
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.tar.gz.sha512
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.zip
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.zip.asc
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.zip.sha256
apache-log4j-2.19.0-src.zip.sha512

This is what `log4j-tools/0.4.0` looks like:

apache-log4j-tools-0.4.0.zip
apache-log4j-tools-0.4.0.zip.asc
apache-log4j-tools-0.4.0.zip.sha512

I think the latter is more self-explanatory, compact, and contains
everything the former has.

Why are all the ".githug" files even in the source zip file?
>

There are no `.githug` files. There is a `.github` folder. They are of
particular importance since the reusable CI workflows are part of the
release. They are code used by other projects. They will be versioned and
used by referring to their version.

`src.zip` contains *everything* tracked by Git that is responsible for
making that release happen. It is not a sparse checkout of the actual
repository. That said, Log4j always had it; go and download any
`apache-log4j-*-src.{zip,tar.gz}` of your liking. Hence I am not able to
understand your objection for this particular occasion.

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