Let’s just say “understanding” means whatever you meant in…

“ LLM review is not a substitute for human review, and must be used only to 
augment a complete and independent human understanding of the patch.”

> On Sep 24, 2026, at 5:18 AM, Benedict Elliott Smith <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Caleb,
> 
> Thanks for your alternative proposal. Unfortunately I could not support it. 
> The word “understanding” has no clear meaning in this proposal, and 
> experience with patch review (and using LLMs) leads me to conclude that such 
> “understanding” is much weaker, more shallow and error prone. Talking about a 
> patch in the world of LLMs is also no demonstration of understanding it.
> 
> Importantly, if we “accelerate” as Patrick wants, we must necessarily give up 
> human understanding. In the best case this policy allows some fraction of 
> authors to stop writing code and free up time for review* so that there is 
> some fractional velocity increase at the expense of their reduced 
> understanding. But to accelerate as proposed, this new bottleneck must come 
> under further pressure and “understanding” must dilute significantly, likely 
> relying on LLM for a significant fraction of it, as is happening in the 
> kernel. While this policy maybe aims for the former outcome, the latter is 
> the likely end state given the opinions expressed.
> 
> If we cannot agree sensible limitations, I would instead support Aleksey’s 
> proposal of adopting Rust’s stronger policy.
> 
> * this rests on the huge assumption that this would be possible or desirable 
> for these authors
> 
> 
>> On 2026/09/24 04:54:50 Caleb Rackliffe wrote:
>> I’d support something that boils down to roughly this:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1.) 2 committers must understand an LLM-assisted change before it commits.
>> (Perhaps separately we can explore the question of why we haven’t added any
>> new committers to the core project for about a year. I’m also still not
>> entirely sure if it’s acceptable within our guidelines for a committer to +1 
>> a
>> patch after delegating review.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2.) Patch authors must demonstrate enough understanding to discuss their own
>> patch, whether or not parts of it are generated by an LLM.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 3.) The “Assisted-by” tag should be used to indicate any non-trivial LLM 
>> usage
>> in the generation of a patch, just like we have used Co-authored-by
>> historically.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 4.) Comments and other things that aren't the actual code (but could sow
>> confusion) should be held to the same standard we'd expect from a human
>> writer. If we don’t yet agree on that standard, we can formalize enough of it
>> to guide both humans and LLMs.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2026, at 5:39 PM, David Capwell via dev
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:  
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> Dmitry, thanks so much for sharing; I agree its a great talk to listen to. 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>>> On Sep 23, 2026, at 3:03 PM, Dmitry Konstantinov <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> Think this couldn't happen to us? Already has:
>> <https://github.com/ferrosadb/ferrosa>.
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> <https://github.com/ferrosadb/ferrosa/blob/main/CONTRIBUTING.md#what-we-
>> dont-accept> \- it is interesting that even there we have: "What We Don't
>> Accept: Code generated by AI tools without human review and understanding.
>> We're happy for contributors to use AI as an assistant, but the contributor
>> must understand and stand behind every line they submit."
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 22:35, Dmitry Konstantinov
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:  
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> An interesting Linux Kernel Report talk has just come out, and it’s quite
>> relevant to our discussion: 
>> <https://www.youtube.com/live/3KAcS05H31Y?t=1242s>
>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Sept 2026 at 22:09, Aleksey Yeshchenko via dev
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:  
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> This day was bound to come *eventually*, but this does need to be
>> settled.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> I have a lot of opinions on this subject, like everyone else does (and
>> their moms). And none of them are fresh and novel. Just as tired as everyone
>> else's.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> That said, I'll try to compose a proper response with some of the less
>> tired ones by the end of the week.
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> In the meantime, I am +1 on this proposal, though my preferred option
>> would be to adopt Rust's, which is stricter, more or less as is
>> (<https://forge.rust-lang.org/policies/llm-usage.html>).
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> \--
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> AY
>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> On 23 Sep 2026, at 21:39, Caleb Rackliffe
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> My understanding is that we don’t actually require that any reviews
>> are performed by committers. Only that two committers +1 a patch, confirming
>> they believe the relevant standards have been met, which could be via   
>> purely
>> non-committer reviews that they each trust to have done the work.
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> That's interesting. My understanding of this has always been that 2
>> committers had to have an understanding of the patch, either via authorship 
>> or
>> review (aided by AI or not).
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2026 at 2:16 PM Patrick McFadin
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:  
>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> I was waiting for this moment to hit our project and I'm glad we're
>> here. I am deeply concerned for our project and its future, as we have
>> increasingly made it difficult to contribute. I had hoped that this new era 
>> of
>> software tools powered by AI would expand the project's reach and bring more
>> diverse thoughts and ideas. This policy proposal is the exact opposite of 
>> what
>> we need. We have been sitting on a Cassandra 6 release alpha for months. We
>> need to accelerate and embrace new ways of being or be left behind. As I read
>> that policy, my first and gut level reactions:  
>>> 
>>> \- It comes across as elitist and class protectionism. Committer should not
>>> be special but this proposal makes that designation even more sacred.  
>>> \- It signals that our project is so fragile that only a few people "Really
>>> understand it" That's some SQLite vibes right there.
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> \- Trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> Sadly, i think this policy change would also exclude a lot of
>> comitters.
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> We aren't alone in this moment. The Linux project just went through
>> this. You can find the thread with a simple Google, but similar hard feelings
>> were being expressed "AI is going to ruin our project!", "The unwashed masses
>> are going to contribute terrible code!", "We have to protect our precious
>> status as Linux maintainers!"  Linus being Linus, was deeply invloved and 
>> they
>> adopted a super simple statement that covers all bases. Human or Human using
>> AI. “You are expected to understand and to be able to defend everything you
>> submit.”  Love that.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> In the larger picture, I'll restate. I'm worried for our project. In
>> late 2025(Opus 4.5 IYKYK), early 2026, AI coding LLMs turned a real corner 
>> and
>> in the hands of somebody that knows how to build software, this tool is like
>> jet fuel. Here's some examples of new projects being hyper fueled by AI 
>> coding
>> tools.  
>>> 
>>> Apache Iggy - Complete rust replacement of kafka. Crazy fast velocity  
>>> Turso - Rust re-write of SQLite  
>>> Bun - Rust re-write of itself from Zig.  
>>> 
>>> Think this couldn't happen to us? Already has:
>>> <https://github.com/ferrosadb/ferrosa>. Ben is using it to power his own
>>> startup, but it was him alone using a ton of local AI coding agents. He even
>>> implemented Accord. Yeah...  
>>> 
>>> The cracks are already starting to show. There is a black market economy of
>>> Cassandra patches happening now. Not going to name names or call people out,
>>> but there are fixes and optimizations living in branches outside of the
>>> Cassandra project. Why? I'll use myself as an example. I fixed a nasty bug I
>>> ran into with TCM a few weeks ago. Wrote the tests. It passes CI and lives
>>> in my personal branch. I'm sitting here really wondering if I want to go
>>> through the ritual humiliation of being roasted for using AI to fix it. Me.
>>> I am worried about contrinuting code the Cassandra. What the hell does that
>>> say?  
>>> 
>>> I have my CQLite project that I've been doing a release around once a month.
>>> I would love to donate that to the Cassandra project but I wouldn't if it
>>> essentially killed any progress.
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> My larger counter proposal would be to:  
>>> - Adopt the “You are expected to understand and to be able to defend
>>> everything you submit.” approach the Linux project has adopted.
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> - Loosen up the contributor process and our worry on trunk. Let 1000
>> flowers bloom and bring it in.
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> \- And finally, to give some people more peace of mind and open more
>> doors, adopt what other projects have done and provide more pluggability. Let
>> new ideas have an easy place to connect.  
>>> 
>>> We are at a fork in the road. What are we going to do? And then I have to
>>> ask myself, what am I going to do as a contributor?
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> Patrick
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2026 at 6:16 AM Blake Eggleston
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:  
>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>> __
>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>> I’m not necessarily opposed to having a policy, but so far we have
>> some specific proposals addressing a problem statement that’s very nebulous.
>> What is the community failing to do on its own that we’re trying to correct
>> with policy? What outcomes are we trying to create or prevent? Having some
>> examples and specific problems to discuss would help focus the conversation.
>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2026, at 4:34 AM, Shailaja Koppu via dev wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Benedict,
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for clarifying. My concern still remains. This criteria would
>> be difficult to define and apply consistently. What counts as “similar” scope
>> or area, “mostly correct,” or sufficiently independent work? More 
>> importantly,
>> how do we prevent such vague criteria from creating an informal hierarchy
>> where some contributors work is routinely accepted while others is routinely
>> rejected?
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> If the intent is to limit AI-assisted code changes to Cassandra
>> contributors, or to contributors who have previously worked in that component
>> without AI, that would at least be clear and enforceable.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2026, at 12:01 PM, Benedict Elliott Smith
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Core code changes
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris: Do you object to the first or second line you quote? Because
>> the first line is effectively motivation for the second line, and can be
>> removed (or more clearly combined). If it’s the second line, then I do not
>> think this is an unreasonable expectation, and we can get into a proper 
>> debate
>> about it.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Shailaja, since you only snipped the first sentence, your concerns
>> might also be mostly answered by this clarification? “Minimal third-party
>> guidance” implies you have some concerns about the second line, but all of 
>> our
>> policies have some ambiguity because legalese is even worse. I don’t think 
>> the
>> ambiguity here would be challenging to navigate though we can certainly 
>> refine
>> it. This specific snippet is meant to convey an expectation that a 
>> contributor
>> has autonomously produced patches of similar scope that were mostly correct,
>> so that they have demonstrated the level of understanding necessary to guide
>> another party to a successful patch (i.e. an LLM in this case).
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026/09/23 10:54:16 Benedict Elliott Smith wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone for your input so far. I’ll respond in brief to
>> the main themes, in (mostly) separate emails so they can each have their own
>> debate chain.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Should we have a policy (Blake/Josh*/Jon/Dinesh)
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we would all agree that LLMs represent the biggest change
>> to this community (and software more generally) since its inception, and we
>> all now have enough experience with the technology to have formed opinions
>> about how it is best managed. We also evidently have not all arrived at the
>> same conclusions. In this situation, it would be an abdication of our
>> responsibilities as a management committee to not agree *some* policy.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I intend to conduct straw polls as the discussion evolves, so if
>> you prefer an alternative policy - or modifications to this policy - I would
>> encourage you to make those alternative proposals.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Veto/Consensus (Josh)
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It was fair to call out my poor use of language on this topic, so
>> let me rephrase a little. The community is built on consensus, and work 
>> should
>> not be merged when there are outstanding concerns to address. The explicit -1
>> should only be used rarely, because the prior expectation should prevent it
>> ever being needed. I (and others) have outstanding concerns on LLM generated
>> work that can only be addressed through this process right here, so to merge
>> such work while maintaining the community’s consensus we must agree some
>> policy.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2026/09/23 09:58:27 Shailaja Koppu via dev wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am strongly -1 on this
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM may only be proposed by
>> contributors with demonstrated expertise
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That creates a new, subjective privileged class of contributors
>> and turns a tool choice into an eligibility test. Who decides whether
>> expertise has been “demonstrated,” what counts as “minimal third-party
>> guidance,” and how could those judgments be applied consistently or fairly?
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apache already has a better model, anyone may contribute, trust
>> and additional repository privileges are earned transparently over time. The
>> ASF describes its communities as flat, and says that newcomer ideas have as
>> much input as those from original creators. We should not add a separate,
>> informal hierarchy in which certain people may use common development tools
>> while others may not.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2026, at 6:33 AM, Chris Lohfink
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM may only be proposed by
>> contributors with demonstrated expertise
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  \- Must have produced similar patches in size, scope and area
>> unassisted and with minimal third-party guidance
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really don't like this one or its wording. Definitely too "the
>> peasants are getting uppity lets build a wall". Lets not let a subjective
>> thing like demonstrated expertise (who decides that?) be if it's ok or not.
>> Hold the same standards for code quality and process for it all. I don't want
>> this to be: only people on the storage team in Apple can use AI.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2026 at 12:16 AM
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
>> <mailto:[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])>> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Stefan and think this is both a reasonable and
>> thoughtful proposal.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here are some things I like about it:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – It outlines areas where LLM usage is unambiguously useful to
>> the project’s developers and users.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – It defines a spectrum of recommendations and cautions.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – The only prohibited areas are extremely narrow and say
>> nothing about code at all.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some in this thread are responding as if this proposal seeks to
>> prohibit or sharply limit use of LLMs. In fact, it’s one of the most open and
>> welcoming I’ve seen for an OSS project of our size where many are adopting
>> policies that simply ban them entirely. I’ve re-appended the proposal below 
>> my
>> message as it seems to have been lost in threaded replies, and would 
>> encourage
>> folks to give it a second read.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Some brief thoughts based on my own use of LLMs:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – I find them fantastically useful for reviewing and
>> identifying problems that have slipped through review - primarily via Alex
>> Petrov’s /deep-review skill, which I have running in a VM in a loop executing
>> over every new commit in the project as of a few days ago. I will be posting 
>> a
>> few hand-authored Jira tickets based on findings that appear legitimate to 
>> me.
>> For now, the loop is posting them as issue drafts for my own review on my
>> personal fork which you can find here:
>> <https://github.com/cscotta/cassandra/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aopen%20label%3Abug>
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – They’re great for enabling use of model checkers and formal
>> methods where such work would have previously been prohibitively expensive,
>> such as Blake’s work on a TLA+ proof of aspects of Mutation Tracking and
>> Benedict/Fedor’s work on a machine-checkable proof of the Accord protocol in
>> Lean.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – They are stunning for allowing me to experiment with ideas
>> that would have otherwise been a summer internship’s scope of work. Some
>> examples include an io_uring prototype, exploring the impact of page-aligned
>> compressed chunk sizes, an API shim bridging the 3.x and 4.x Java Drivers, 
>> and
>> potential enhancements to Zstandard.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – And they shine when given grunt-work that is critical to the
>> project but a miserable labor for humans, such as triaging, reproducing, and
>> root-causing flaky tests, which David Capwell now has running in a loop to
>> help us improve CI stability in the project.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never thought I’d be so positive on what’s possible via
>> language models a year ago. At the same time, I also agree that they present
>> challenges and risks that can be managed through thoughtful discussion and
>> policy. Some of the concerns that I think are important to guard against
>> include:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – Asymmetry of effort between author and reviewers: As token-
>> generating machines, LLMs can generate diffs of extraordinary size very
>> rapidly. /deep-review is great for chewing through diffs and identifying
>> defects. But it should be used by the contributor themselves to identify
>> issues – not to replace the role of the reviewer with more electricity. The
>> role of the reviewers extends beyond identifying and highlighting defects. It
>> encompasses architecture, harmony with the existing codebase, thinking ahead
>> to future evolution of the project, and replicates context on the project as
>> new code is committed. These functions cannot be automated away.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – Hesitancy of authors to engage manually with code they have
>> generated: This is not specific to Cassandra, but it is a behavior that I 
>> have
>> seen in several “highly-electric” projects. There’s a bimodal tendency toward
>> code that is entirely generated or entirely human-authored - but it is rare
>> for someone to prepare an AI-authored patch to take an offramp and spend a
>> significant amount of time refining the work by hand in an IDE. This 
>> hesitancy
>> toward human participation in authorship of LLM-generated code is very
>> concerning to me.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – Harmony with the existing codebase: Due to the tunnel-vision
>> of context windows, LLMs are generally unaware of conventions and norms
>> present in codebases and very frequently reinvent concepts in a generation
>> turn to suit a goal without view of the project’s overall architecture. This
>> results in a profusion of messy and duplicated concepts that gradually sprawl
>> about a codebase.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Again, none of these are grounds for prohibition of usage of
>> language models in developing the project. They’re just problems we need to
>> bear in mind and guard against – and I think the proposal is designed to do
>> just that.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m thrilled by the potential of LLMs to improve Apache
>> Cassandra and we already see it happening through a vast number of issues 
>> that
>> are being reported and fixed. But there’s also danger in taking ATVs down a
>> hiking trail full of people.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding the prohibition on prose, I’ll simply say: I recently
>> found myself in a scenario where I found a Claude-authored document so
>> inscrutable that I piped it back into a model, directed it to rewrite it in
>> ASD-STE100, read it myself, and responded based on the summarization. As a
>> humanities grad, this is probably the worst language crime I have committed.
>> But it was in response to language that was itself so idiosyncratic that it
>> was unreadable to me in its original form. I hope this never happens in the
>> Apache Cassandra project.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’ll close with a quote from an excellent article written by
>> Colin Breck, an engineer who works on large-scale data systems:
>> <https://blog.colinbreck.com/i-dont-want-to-read-what-you-didnt-write/>
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colin wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t want to live in a world where you use AI to summarize
>> something important into unreadable text, and then I use AI in an attempt to
>> decipher it. I want to hear you, imperfections and all. I want your
>> interpretation of aesthetics, beauty, quality, relationship, time. I want to
>> know how you feel. I want you to cut through and tell me what really matters.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intentional writing will likely become more valuable. People
>> who write, and write to think, to think deeply and carefully, or to create, 
>> to
>> share, or to capture something important without explicitly expressing it 
>> will
>> continue to write and produce original work. The people who never were 
>> writers
>> will use AI to produce lots of text.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that our culture can remain one of intentional writing
>> and intentional engineering. I enjoy reading the voice of the author in
>> comments, code, and tickets in Cassandra – the different ways we use language
>> based on where we grew up and how we learned English, the translated idioms
>> from our various backgrounds, and terse comments that recognize the 
>> difference
>> between code whose function is obvious and what warrants genuine exposition.
>> When I read code in Cassandra, it’s a delight to recognize the author based 
>> on
>> their writing style before flipping on `git annotate` to reveal the origin.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’d encourage folks to re-read the original proposal below. It
>> is very permissive. The guidance strikes me not just as reasonable, but
>> genuinely important to maintaining the health of the project.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – Scott
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =====
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Encouraged:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Reviewing and otherwise validating human-authored patches
>> before submission
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Debugging, diagnosing etc
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Permitted:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Generating or modifying tests, scripts, tooling or any other
>> non-user facing changes
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Minor changes to human-authored patches that are carefully
>> reviewed by the author
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Restricted:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM may only be proposed by
>> contributors with demonstrated expertise
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  \- Must have produced similar patches in size, scope and area
>> unassisted and with minimal third-party guidance
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM require an additional reviewer
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- LLM review is not a substitute for human review, and must be
>> used only to augment a complete and independent human understanding of the
>> patch.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prohibited:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- All public prose must be human authored. This includes
>> inline comments, docs, posts to Jira etc.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All LLM generated changes MUST be disclosed:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Outlined to any reviewer;
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Summarised in the commit message;
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Large blocks or files must be individually marked with some
>> agreed message like "created by <some AI>"
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> =====
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 22, 2026, at 9:13 PM, Dinesh Joshi
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
>> <mailto:[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])>> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2026 at 3:28 AM Benedict
>> <[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])
>> <mailto:[[email protected]](mailto:[email protected])>> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Restricted:
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM may only be proposed by
>> contributors with demonstrated expertise
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   \- Must have produced similar patches in size, scope and
>> area unassisted and with minimal third-party guidance
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am -1 on this. This sounds like gate keeping attempt. It
>> narrowly limits the pool to a few people on the project that have 
>> historically
>> contributed to certain parts of the codebase. This policy will prohibit
>> skilled software engineers with domain expertise from proposing LLM assisted
>> changes simply because they have not contributed to the project. This is
>> unrealistic and a net negative for the project to attract talent and grow our
>> community.
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> \- Core code changes made by LLM require an additional
>> reviewer
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you be more precise what is this in addition to? How many
>> total reviewers do you expect and what is the purpose of additional reviewer?
>> and why?
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taking a step back - what are you trying to solve here?
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> \--  
>>> 
>>>>> 
>> 
>>>>> Dmitry Konstantinov
>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> \--  
>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>>> Dmitry Konstantinov
>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 

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