Hi Craig, > > I get the impression that my objectivity is being misinterpreted again. > > not sure what you mean by that. i thought i was quite careful to state > that i was using a generic "you" in my examples, and not referring to you > personally. if you got that impression, then i apologise because that was > not what i intended.
There is no need to apologize Craig. I understood that you were using the generic "you." I just thought that you misunderstood what I was trying to say. "My bad." :) > i agree. i don't think developers have to 100% agree with every single > one of debian's policies. I do think, however, that developers > should agree to abide by debian policies, and working within debian's > constitution to effect any changes, and (more importantly) they should > agree with the "spirit" of the social contract and DFSG. I wholeheartedly agree! > unfortunately, "spirit" is an ill-defined and nebulous thing, hard to > pin down exactly. The Social Contract and the DFSG are a good attempt > to define debian's spirit. Very true. In general the DFSG and the Social Contract seem to do a good job of attempting to define Debian's spirit. I agree with you again! > your comments about leaving when/if you can no longer agree with > debian's policies is kind of what i meant. i don't think anyone should > be kicked out (except perhaps for extreme cases, which i cant/dont want > to imagine right now), but that their own priorities for what they feel > worthy of donating the time/energy to, and perhaps their own sense of > honour, will make the decision to leave. It seems that we have had some misunderstandings. I am very happy that things are clearer now. > similarly, i think that people who don't have a committment to debian's > "spirit" shouldn't join up as developers in the first place. they should > find somewhere more in tune with their own beliefs...they'd be happier > and more productive, and so would we. Ditto! > BTW, people have left debian in the past for several reasons - including > running out of time (i.e they graduated or got a new job), and also over > major disagreements in direction. some have gone on to do other, equally > worthwhile and valuable work either by themselves or in another group. Yep, I remember one notable one. > > My concern is that Debian is becoming (almost) elitist. > > what's wrong with elitism :-) > > there's too much mediocrity in the world. more elitist high quality > stuff is needed. Well, when you put it that way... :) > > Some people are flat out saying "conform or get out," in a sense. Is > > this really a healthy attitude for Debian to have? > > i think you are greatly exaggerating the strength of the comments that > have been made. Perhaps you are right. I don't recall my state of mind when I made that comment ...heh, "I have no recollection of that..." > OTOH, if someone ever did something seriously damaging to debian i > would hope that they did have the decency to voluntary get out without > dragging us all into a huge fight over whether they should be kicked out > or not. One more agreement from me! > > The fact that my opinions go against what is apparently the Debian > > mainstream way of thinking doesn't mean that I should leave. > > however, if (after you have had your say) the majority of developers > think you are wrong and the vote goes against you then you should either > a) shut up about it for a reasonable period of time - several months at > least, or b) voluntary leave if you can't do (a). I'd agree with you more about this if more developers were more vocal about how they feel. Right now less then a quarter of the developers seem to express their opinion or even vote (someone correct me if I am wrong). > > If used properly, diversity of opinion should only help Debian. Those > > with opinions that differ from the mainstream should not be branded > > "heretics" or encouraged to leave. > > you could have the debian chicken (in a slashed-circle) branded across > your forehead. > > we should put that in our constitution. heretics to be branded and > marched out with a cattle-prod. maybe have different brands for the > different heresies so that all can see at a glance what kind of > perversion the branded one will try to lead them into. > > btw, if you think that paragraph needed a smilie then you need to get > out more and relax a bit. LOL! No, no, you didn't need a smilie face. That was really funny! Does this mean I don't need to relax more? :) You know, we should send some of debian chicken t-shirts to a certain software company we all know. Thanks for the discussion and clarification Craig! -Ossama ______________________________________________________________________ Ossama Othman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 58 60 1A E8 7A 66 F4 44 74 9F 3C D4 EF BF 35 88 1024/8A04D15D 1998/08/26
