On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 at 11:41, Andrey Rakhmatullin <w...@debian.org> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Jul 13, 2024 at 09:44:03PM +0200, Lukas Märdian wrote:
> > > However, I do not think it should be the default. First of all, only
> > > Ubuntu uses it, nobody else - as Simon says, we don't want the
> > > defaults to be super-special things that nobody else uses. And then
> >
> > Actually, I think this is an agrument FOR Netplan, not against it. Netplan
> > is being used
> > by millions of users for 7+ years. Plenty of usecases have been tried and
> > documented. It's
> > clearly not a "super-special thing that nodbody uses".
> >
> > Whereas I'm not aware of a major Linux distro using systemd-networkd
> > directly, Debian would be
> > singeling out itself. I see some of networkd's strengths with advanced
> > users who want to dig deep
> > and have full control at minimal resource usage (e.g. Arch Linux). Also
> > with lightweight container
> > usecases, where network config only needs minimal manipulation after
> > deployment (if at all).
It largely depends on the configuration and flavours, in some cases
networkd is used for headless installs, in some other cases
network-manager is used, like in Fedora. Up until some time ago SUSE
used to use wicked, but they also switched to network-manager by
default somewhat recently, and wicked is deprecated. But nobody apart
from Ubuntu uses anything but network-manager on GUI installations at
this point. Debian is actually following the rest of the ecosystem on
this for once, and that is a good thing. I am quite convinced we
should stop being outliers, there are way more interesting things to
do with our limited time. It's fine to have other less popular options
available, even in the installer, but the default is something
different.
> > The RedHat ecosystem is all-in on NetworkManager. Debian and Ubuntu have
> > (natually) been very close
> > to each other (e.g. package management) and together with its derivatives
> > create the Debian ecosystem.
>
> Then it looks like a chance for netplan to go the way of upstart?
Or MIR or Unity or...
It's perfectly normal and expected for companies to follow their own
strategy and do what's best to pursue it. When things are aligned with
the rest of the ecosystem, it's not a problem. But when it goes in
opposite directions, then it's quite a different story. Recently there
was also the LXD case, where after many years a CLA and a license
change were introduced last year by Canonical, creating de-facto a
split, with the community choosing to fork to Incus - I do not know
the background details, as I am not involved in the slightest, and I'm
sure there must have been some reason for those decisions, but from an
outsider's perspective I'm afraid the optics were not quite good. What
guarantees do we have that what happened to LXD won't happen to
netplan.io at some point in the future?
Networking is not static, it constantly changes in the kernel,
sometimes in dramatic and incompatible ways. A widely used, well
maintained stack with large amounts of contributors is fundamental for
the default choice, because we have to keep up, as the rest of the
world will not sit and wait for us.
Here's some stats from 'git shortlog --after="2021-12-31" -sn --all'.
In the last ~2.5 years, in netplan.io's github repo, there are only 2
contributors with more than 100 commits, and 2 with more than 10, and
2 of them are Canonical employees:
569 Lukas Märdian
310 Danilo Egea Gondolfo
39 Simon Chopin
38 Danilo Egêa Gondolfo
11 Robert Krátký
Same stat, for the same period, for systemd:
6650 Yu Watanabe
5415 Lennart Poettering
2884 Luca Boccassi
2772 Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
2437 Daan De Meyer
1793 Frantisek Sumsal
1364 Mike Yuan
483 Jan Janssen
400 David Tardon
245 Franck Bui
215 dependabot[bot]
211 Antonio Alvarez Feijoo
165 Ronan Pigott
152 Dan Streetman
146 Ludwig Nussel
126 hulkoba
119 Nick Rosbrook
114 Dmitry V. Levin
107 Sam Leonard
102 Evgeny Vereshchagin
78 msizanoen
74 Richard Maw
73 Adrian Vovk
72 Maanya Goenka
63 Michal Sekletár
60 Cristian Rodríguez
49 Michal Koutný
40 Jan Macku
40 Krzesimir Nowak
37 Mariano Giménez
37 Michael Biebl
37 Topi Miettinen
36 наб
35 Susant Sahani
33 Peter Morrow
32 Benjamin Franzke
32 Christian Brauner
32 Richard Phibel
31 Christian Göttsche
29 Anita Zhang
29 Khem Raj
26 James Hilliard
25 Abderrahim Kitouni
23 Arthur Zamarin
23 Florian Schmaus
22 Bastien Nocera
22 Daniel P. Berrangé
22 James Coglan
20 Arseny Maslennikov
20 Gerd Hoffmann
20 Kamil Szczęk
20 Mike Gilbert
20 Omojola Joshua
18 Jacek Migacz
18 Jason A. Donenfeld
18 Joan Bruguera
18 Sam James
18 Vito Caputo
17 Alberto Planas
16 Christian Hesse
16 Emanuele Giuseppe Esposito
16 Martin Wilck
16 Piotr Drąg
16 Дамјан Георгиевски
15 Emil Velikov
15 Quentin Deslandes
15 Rafaël Kooi
15 Štěpán Němec
14 Ivan Shapovalov
14 Joerg Behrmann
13 Curtis Klein
13 Heinrich Schuchardt
13 Matthias Lisin
13 Thomas Blume
13 Vishal Chillara Srinivas
13 Winterhuman
13 undef
13 김인수
12 Adam Williamson
12 Benjamin Berg
12 Eli Schwartz
12 Radoslav Kolev
12 Shreenidhi Shedi
12 Sonali Srivastava
12 Vitaly Kuznetsov
12 Xiaotian Wu
11 Chen Qi
11 Daniel Braunwarth
11 David Rheinsberg
11 Eugeny Shcheglov
11 Gabríel Arthúr Pétursson
11 Kai Lueke
11 Maximilian Wilhelm
11 Peter Cai
11 Takashi Sakamoto
11 Will Fancher
11 ml
11 pyfisch
11 rhellstrom
10 Gibeom Gwon
10 Luca BRUNO
10 Peter Hutterer
10 Valentin David
10 jcg
10 Łukasz Stelmach
3 companies and one independent in the 4 digits, and too many to be
bothered to check between 10 and 999 commits.
Just to twist the knife, here's ifupdown:
34 Santiago Ruano Rincón
10 Santiago R.R
The second contributor, down to single digit, is Debian Janitor...
