Hi Mike, On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 04:27:51PM -0400, Mike Connor wrote: > Sorry for dropping this a while back, we didn't have enough bandwidth to > track this down...
Understood; seems to be a common enough problem. :) > >>The key problem is that there is code, and a build switch, that > >>explicitly handles the official branding/logos vs. the generic > >>name/artwork, and the package maintainer has chosen to break this switch > >>by making the unofficial side of the switch also label itself as > >>Firefox. I don't understand the motivations here, since the changelog I > >>saw isn't visible (packages.debian.org is still being weird) but the > >>gist of it was "avoid using the official branding switch" which seems > >>like one of those "makes it harder to undo" steps since people actually > >>would have to change code instead of build options to not be bound by > >>those terms. If users don't build with the official branding, its > >>because they are not accepting the terms of using things bound up in > >>trademark law. Doing things this way implies that only the artwork is > >>part of the official branding, as opposed to the name as well. > >I had to break the switch, because I need to call it Firefox, but I > >can't include the official graphics. > I've confirmed that this isn't acceptable usage of the trademark. If > you are going to use the Firefox name, you must also use the rest of the > branding. If Eric's statement that the firefox logos are distributed under a non-free copyright license remains accurate, then it seems that ultimately, the only acceptable solution to Debian would unfortunately be to stop using the firefox name altogether. So I'm hoping we can find a middle ground somewhere. > >>Why can't you just use the official branding switch, anyway? > >Because it uses graphics which have a non-free copyright license. > This is not something where you are free to pick what parts you want to > use. Either use the trademarked logos and name together or don't. The > name is trademarked in the exact same way as the logo, so I fail to see > how you can argue that one is acceptable to use and the other is not. > Maybe there's a technicality, but the name is just as free as the logos... The distinction here is that the firefox name is just a name, covered only by trademark law (not by copyright law), but a logo is a work of art, covered both by copyright law and trademark law. Applying trademark-*like* restrictions on a work of art in its copyright license prevents our users from doing things with that work that they are allowed to do with other free artwork, *and* which are permitted under trademark law. For instance, a trademark is limited to a field of endeavour, so using the logo in an unrelated field is permitted by trademark law but not permitted by the copyright license; or, a logo may be used as a starting point for another work of art which is a derivative *work* under copyright law, but is not a derivative *mark* under trademark law. These are corner cases, but they are nevertheless important to Debian, as we're committed to providing our users an operating system consisting entirely of material that they have the right to modify, reuse, and redistribute (trademarks not withstanding). Of course, we've had problems living up to this even where our own trademarks are concerned, so Debian as a whole is likely to be forgiving of logo licensing problems in the near term, but the package maintainers don't *have* to avail themselves of such leniency, and it's my understanding that Eric has already decided it's in Debian's best interest to not ship the logos under a non-free copyright license. Is the sticking point in all of this truly that the Mozilla Foundation finds it unacceptable to ship a browser named firefox which uses the non-trademarked logos, or is it that we've broken the configure option that others are expected to use when getting the un-branded version? I.e., would it be suitable if Debian updated its patch to add a separate "name but no logos" configure option, leaving the original "no name, no logos" option intact? Thanks, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
