On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 05:31:33PM +0000, Matthew Vernon wrote: > In Bug #1084924, the Technical Committee was asked about a mass bug filing > that aimed to remove all dependencies (except Provides: and Conflicts:) upon > the system-log-daemon virtual package. Whilst the wording of policy in this > area is unclear, the Technical Committee notes that long-standing practice > in this area as reflected by policy was that packages could declare > appropriate dependencies upon the system-log-daemon virtual package. The > Technical Committee also acknowledges that on systemd systems, journald can > serve the purpose of system-log-daemon, but that systemd also supports > installing a separate system-log-daemon. > > A) The Technical Committee affirms that it is reasonable for a package to > declare any suitable dependency upon the system-log-daemon virtual package. > As journald can serve as system-log-daemon either alone or alongside a > separate system-log-daemon, this should be expressed in the systemd > packaging, by shipping a systemd-journald-is-syslog dummy package or some > other suitable mechanism. The Technical Committee suggests that Policy be > updated to clarify this, and that maintainers who removed such dependencies > as a result of the mass bug filing consider restoring them. > > B) The Technical Committee notes that logging may be provided by a container > runtime, or by journald (by itself or in concert with a separate > system-log-daemon), and that it is no longer practical to express the > availability or otherwise of a logging daemon via package dependencies. > Therefore, the Technical Committee agrees that packages should now only > declare Provides: and Conflicts: relationships with the system-log-daemon > virtual package. The Technical Committee suggests that Policy be update to > reflect this change. > > C) The Technical Committee resolves that this is a de facto attempt to > change Policy, and that the Policy process should be used to consider > whether to change Policy relating to system-log-daemon from the status quo > of packages being able to declare any reasonable dependency upon > system-log-daemon to the state where only Provides: and Conflicts: may be > used. Until that process is concluded, dependencies upon the > system-log-daemon should not be removed (unless they are incorrect on the > merits of an individual case). > > D) The Technical Committee notes that logging daemons can now co-exist with > each other. Therefore, they should stop conflicting with one another, and > systemd-sysv should now Provides: system-log-daemon. Given this change, > packages can and should again issue dependencies on system-log-daemon where > deemed appropriate by their maintainers. The Technical Committee suggests > that Policy be updated to reflect this change. > > N) None of the above / Further Discussion.
I vote
B > N > C > A = D
Rationale:
I cannot vote A or D above N, because both of them override systemd
maintainers without - in my view - having seeked their feedback in a
sufficient manner. My understanding is that both A and D require a
3:1 majority under constitution 6.1.4.
I strongly favour B for the reasons given in my earlier mail. No other
proposal simultaneously supports all use cases. Options A and D fail at
serving the container use case (where logging is provided externally).
C is effectively giving up on deciding the matter. I rather see us
taking another round and trying to reach a conclusion (after contacting
systemd maintainers) than punting on the decision. Deferring it to
policy maintainers.
Helmut
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