Hi,
On 17/12/2024 02:42, Sean Whitton wrote:
On Sun 15 Dec 2024 at 06:23pm +01, Helmut Grohne wrote:
Thanks for your comments. I had drafted A) to try and avoid being
prescriptive about the adoption of the systemd-journald-is-syslog
suggestion, but the result seems to have been too ambiguous. And if
Helmut wants an option D, then obviously it should be added. I agree
with Sean that adding a large extra paragraph to option B isn't great.
I've tried to express the above in a revised draft without producing too
much wall-of-text:
Regards,
Matthew
===8<===
In Bug #1084924, the Technical Committee was asked about a mass bug
filing that aimed to remove all dependencies (except Provides: and
Conflicts:) upon the system-log-daemon virtual package. Whilst the
wording of policy in this area is unclear, the Technical Committee notes
that long-standing practice in this area as reflected by policy was that
packages could declare appropriate dependencies upon the
system-log-daemon virtual package. The Technical Committee also
acknowledges that on systemd systems, journald can serve the purpose of
system-log-daemon, but that systemd also supports installing a separate
system-log-daemon.
A) The Technical Committee affirms that it is reasonable for a package
to declare any suitable dependency upon the system-log-daemon virtual
package. As journald can serve as system-log-daemon either alone or
alongside a separate system-log-daemon, this should be expressed in the
systemd packaging, by shipping a systemd-journald-is-syslog dummy
package or some other suitable mechanism. The Technical Committee
suggests that Policy be updated to clarify this, and that maintainers
who removed such dependencies as a result of the mass bug filing
consider restoring them.
B) The Technical Committee notes that logging may be provided by a
container runtime, or by journald (by itself or in concert with a
separate system-log-daemon), and that it is no longer practical to
express the availability or otherwise of a logging daemon via package
dependencies. Therefore, the Technical Committee agrees that packages
should now only declare Provides: and Conflicts: relationships with the
system-log-daemon virtual package. The Technical Committee suggests that
Policy be update to reflect this change.
C) The Technical Committee resolves that this is a de facto attempt to
change Policy, and that the Policy process should be used to consider
whether to change Policy relating to system-log-daemon from the status
quo of packages being able to declare any reasonable dependency upon
system-log-daemon to the state where only Provides: and Conflicts: may
be used. Until that process is concluded, dependencies upon the
system-log-daemon should not be removed (unless they are incorrect on
the merits of an individual case).
D) The Technical Committee notes that logging daemons can now co-exist
with each other. Therefore, their should stop conflicting with one
another, and systemd-sysv should now Provides: system-log-daemon. Given
this change, packages canand should again issue dependencies on
system-log-daemon where deemed appropriate by their maintainers. The
Technical Committee suggests that Policy be updated to reflect this change.
N) None of the above / Further Discussion.
===8<===
