Dear Martin, all,

I withdraw my participation from the issue. Please proceed as you see fit.

Best

George

On Wed, Sep 10, 2025 at 8:19 PM Martin Doerr <[email protected]> wrote:

> Dear George, All,
>
> My submissions will speed up the harmonized official version of CRMdig.
> We have new evidence, since CRMsci and CRMinf are hamonized now and nearly
> ready,
> and we have identified actual users of CRMdig at hand.
>
> Note that the minutes say:
>  "
>
>    - Break the model *in small subtasks* (review properties, Digital
>    Objects etc)
>
> *HW*: GB to coordinate the group of people involved in this task, CEO, (
> *MD*), and confer with ML and GH. Inform the Sig in the next meeting.
>
> "
>
> The decisions you refer to are 2 years old, things have changed since then:
>
> *A summary of decisions & assigned HW can be found below*:
>
>    - Make D13 Digital Information Carrier IsA E22 Human-Made Object
>    - Deprecate D9, introduce Lxx encodes dimension
>    *HW*: GB to provide definition
>    - Make D35 ISA D1, add property (for association with a digital place
>    primitive)
>    *HW*: *MD* to draft the property definition
>    - D29, D30 to be moved to CRMinf instead
>    - *HW*: Provide a new scope, name editors (MD, GB)
>
>
> Therefore I propose
>
> *a):*
>
> *Undo* deprecation of D9, use my first submission (NEW ISSUE: Reviewing
> CRMdig 4.0 Digitization and D9) instead, because it resolves the *ontological
> mismatch* with E54 Dimension and provides harmonization already, and it
> is *backwards compatible* with the previous versions *in use*.
>
> Obviously, it makes *no sense to first deleting D9* and in the next
> reintroducing it. Must be decided before 547 is closed. Isn't it?
> *b)*  *Deprecate L60 *as foreseen, introduce *L61 contains value set of
> (has value set representation) as "**Lxx* *encodes dimension", *fully
> described in my submission.
>
> *c) Undo* D29, D30 to be moved to CRMinf instead. This is again a 
> *non-backwards
> compatible* decision, and does not affect the sense of the concepts,
> which were not questioned.
> Since CRMinf is now nearly finished, it would create an unnecessary
> interruption of the process f CRMinf, which should have priority.
> Further, objections came from promoters of the Open Annotation Model as
> competitors, which is not based on a Named Graph logic. Competitive Models
> have never been an argument for deleting existing CR-compatible models, but
> an argument for investing in a mapping.
>
> With my recent submissions, I broke it 547 into two small subtasks. This
> is the second:
>
> *d)* I resolved D35 completely, my  submission "NEW ISSUE: Reviewing Area
> in CRMdig 4.0" is the above homework, part of issue 547. You can change the
> label as part of Issue 547, not a new issue.
>
> So, I kindly ask why my proposals should not directly be discussed before
> closing issue 547, since they answer exactly to the problems encountered
> with the current version and resolve basically the harmonization question
> already.
> You wrote: "I noticed you added new properties, will they have scope notes
> to consider by the SIG? " Please do read my submissions before insisting on
> a less effective procedure, and consider that I am equally involved in
> issue 547 from the outset.
>
> Best,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> On 9/9/2025 8:04 AM, George Bruseker wrote:
>
> Dear Martin,
>
> Our goal was to complete the issues as tasked by decision of the committee
> and documented in the issue. Furthermore our aim was to come up with a
> harmonized version that was official so that we can have a smooth
> development process moving forward. It looks like your D35 changes fit
> within that hopefully (obviously the group needs to review and understand).
> I noticed you added new properties, will they have scope notes to consider
> by the SIG? Whether you agree with the comments on the annotation model it
> was already decided to take those classes out of CRMdig which this document
> simply reiterates. So unless you want to create an issue to undo that
> issue, I guess we will go ahead with that. I would ask you to consider the
> utility of having a harmonized official version.
>
> Best,
>
> George
>
> On Mon, Sep 8, 2025 at 8:45 PM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Dear George,
>>
>> I kindly ask you to read carefully what I am proposing for CRMdig. I
>> argue that I provide new evidence on issue 547.
>>
>> I had carefully studied the text for issue 547, and propose a viable
>> alternative to your arguments (which we had shared then) already in
>> harmony with CRMsci for D9 and D11. Therefore I propose not to delete
>> concepts we will possibly need to reintroduce, and are not backwards
>> compatible.
>>
>> Second, I have completed the Area concepts with the missing parts from
>> the applied software. It is a generic concept in line with METS, a very
>> important standard.
>>
>> Finally, the fact that the Annotation model appears to be competitive
>> with another annotation model does not make it obsolete per se. It makes
>> use of Named Graph logic, which is very elegant and compact. Van der
>> Soempel personally told me that they made the Annotation Model as it is
>> because Named Graphs were not mature at that time.
>>
>> Note that I am editor of CRMdig and domain expert. I do not agree with
>> this judgement:
>> "Annotation is an important area of digital humanities work. This
>> modeling is very early modelling and misses out on many efforts since
>> then. It is not informed by recent work and it is not a profound
>> ontological contribution anyhow. "
>>
>> If we drop a requirement for these deletions, we can directly review the
>> harmonization with the other models. I argue that my proposals are
>> already mature enough.
>>
>> Please let us review this together.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> --
> ------------------------------------
>  Dr. Martin Doerr
>
>  Honorary Head of the
>  Center for Cultural Informatics
>
>  Information Systems Laboratory
>  Institute of Computer Science
>  Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH)
>
>  N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton,
>  GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece
>
>  Email: [email protected]
>  Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl
>
>
_______________________________________________
Crm-sig mailing list
[email protected]
http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list

Reply via email to