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A librarian expresses an initial opinion:
What about gender of a name? E.g. "Gordon" is male; "Gordana" is female. The Library of Congress has only recently stopped assigning gender to the referant of a name, which has resulted in howlers like "Robert Galbraith" (pseudonym of J.K. Rowling) is a male because the name is 'male'.
RDA: resource description and access is an implementation of the IFLA Library Reference Model (entity-relationship version). Names and titles are given equal treatment; the only difference between a 'name' and a 'title' is that 'title' is the traditional word for the 'name' of an information resource. Since LRM/RDA has four 'resource entities', we have 'title of work', 'title of _expression_', 'title of manifestation', and 'title of item'; all other entities have 'name": 'name of place', 'name of time-span', 'name of agent', etc.
This discussion exposes a further difference, but it is not absolute. A 'title' is usually composed of words, etc. taken from a natural language: "Ceci n'est pas une pipe" uses French words; "The treachery of images" uses English words; "La trahison des images" is back to French; "The wind and the song" is back to English ... On the other hand, a 'name' is usually composed of words, etc. that have no other use in natural language. But there are many counter-examples, and the distinction may not exist in a specific language group (e.g. Chinese?).
Although RDA has a property for 'has language of nomen' ('nomen' being the generic term for 'name/title', 'access point', and 'identifier'), the expectation is that it only has utility for 'title', but not 'name'.
The sibling property 'has script of nomen' has utility for names and titles. It is important for transliterations.
On 09/11/2022 20:02 GMT George Bruseker via Crm-sig <[email protected]> wrote:_______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list [email protected] http://lists.ics.forth.gr/mailman/listinfo/crm-sigDear Martin,I don't see an ontological problem here. One name can be used by / in many languages. If it is, that can be documented.
The question was not if names can belong to language, or if langauges create names. It was how this is unambiguously defined.It isn't our job as ontologists to unambiguously define the instances of things in the world. This is for the domain specialists.
The example below is what I feared. The fact that the arabic script is mainly used for Arabic, does itr make a transcript of an English name "Arabic?" why not Farsi? I ask here for the Librarians to express their opinion.Who documents the object, documents their knowledge and, hopefully, thereby, the state of affairs in the world.I don't understand the Farsi aspect of the above question. Why would transliterating a name into English from Arabic make it Farsi? Librarians?Here's a person with a name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AverroesHis name is ابن رشد in Arabic and also أبو الوليد محمد ابن احمد ابن رشد.With E33_E41 we can say that. Without it, we can't.His name in English is usually Averroes and also he is known as Ibn Rushd.With E33_E41 we can say that. Without it, we cant.He has a transliterated name: Abū l-Walīd Muḥammad Ibn ʾAḥmad Ibn Rušd . Is that his name in Arabic or English or no language? I don't know. Both? Maybe. I'm not a scholar of philosopher's names and it's not my province to judge. This is not the domain of the ontologist but the specialist in onomastics or the appropriate discipline.
Why is Douglas Adams not "German"? I would use it in German exactly in this form.Then put in the KB for this name 'has language English' and 'has language German' and the problem is solved.
But "Adams" I think is a last name exclusive to English, as Dörr to German.
What is the language of "Martin", "Martino", of
Martin: Identical in English, Spanish, French, Dutch, German, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish?If that is what the expert in onomastics thinks, yes. Not an ontological issue. We provide the semantic framework, they do the researching.Martino in Italian, Rumanian?
From Wikipedia: "Joshua".Josua or Jozua is a male given name and a variation of the Hebrew name Yeshua.[1][2] Notable people with this name include:
- Josua Bühler (1895–1983), Swiss philatelist
- Josua de Grave (1643–1712), Dutch draughtsman and painter
- Josua Harrsch (1669–1719), German missionary
- Josua Hoffalt (born 1984), French ballet dancer
- Josua Järvinen (1871–1948), Finnish politician
- Josua Koroibulu (born 1982), Fijian rugby league footballer
- Josua Heschel Kuttner (c. 1803–1878), Jewish Orthodox scholar and rabbi
- Josua Lindahl (1844–1912), Swedish-American geologist and paleontologist
- Josua Maaler (1529–1599), Swiss pastor and lexicographer
- Josua Mateinaniu (fl. 1835), Fijian missionary
- Josua Mejías (born 1997), Venezuelan footballer
- Johann Josua Mosengel (1663–1731), German pipe organ builder
- Jozua Naudé (disambiguation), several people
- Josua Swanepoel (born 1983), South African cricketer
- Josua Tuisova (born 1994), Fijian rugby union player
- Josua Vakurunabili (born 1992), Fijian rugby union player
- Josua Vici (born 1994), Fijian rugby union player
Following scripts, only יְהוֹשֻׁעַ would be Hebrew, but Yeshua English?
This is a question for the knowledge base. The English speaker writing this article thinks that "Josua" applies to these people. It is up to them to instantiate an instance of the class, call it Hebrew and then assign it as a name of those individuals. If someone wants to dispute this, they can use negative properties. I don't know if the above wikipedia article is true or not, but I would like to be able to represent that data in the KB so that I could try to find out.So, not sure why that's a blocker.Best,
George
Cheers
Gordon
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