On 19x19 yes, but on 9x9, it probably can get noticeably stronger, especially if other strong programs have openings they like and MF learns a refutation.
David > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:computer-go- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Williams > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:03 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Computer-go] ManyFaces learning > > "I dont think it helps the strength much in 19x19, but it makes the > games look prettier." > > So regarding learning while playing on CGOS: The program changes, but > the amount that the true ELO is going to move during it's CGOS > lifetime is completely negligable. > > > On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 1:09 PM, David Fotland <[email protected]> > wrote: > > On 9x9, playing against people, the opening learning is very important so > > that they dont find a winning sequence then just repeat it. This has > been > > in Igowin since it first shipped, in 1998. I dont think it helps the > > strength much in 19x19, but it makes the games look prettier. > > > > I use a persistent position hash table that stores every position visited > > twice (or more) by games that were deliberately added (File, Add Game(s) > to > > database), and every position in every game played locally. The program > > ships with a 19x19 database built from about 40K games. The next update > > will also include 9x9 games from strong cgos programs. > > > > Move choices are biased based on the win/loss ratio, number of visits, > > strength of strongest player moving into that position, depth in the game, > > and probably more that I have long since forgotten. There is no hard > > pruning or immediate move choices from this data, just biasing the search. > > > > David > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] [mailto:computer-go- > >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Petr Baudis > >> Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 3:02 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [Computer-go] ManyFaces learning > >> > >> On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 11:47:01PM -0700, David Fotland wrote: > >> > > > Many Faces learns. I think most everyone follows the policy. As a > >> > > > developer, I want each version of my program to have a separate > name > >> so > >> > > Learns in what way? Won't repeat the exact same loss twice? > >> > Yes. > >> > >> Intriguing! Do you think it actually improves its strength, or is that > >> just an experiment? > >> > >> How does it know where the "losing variation" starts? Is it updating > >> some pattern weights, or updating some persistent game tree? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> -- > >> Petr "Pasky" Baudis > >> The true meaning of life is to plant a tree under whose shade > >> you will never sit. > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Computer-go mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Computer-go mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > _______________________________________________ > Computer-go mailing list > [email protected] > http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go _______________________________________________ Computer-go mailing list [email protected] http://dvandva.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
