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Today's Topics:
1. Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS (David Neeley)
2. Re: uml and cms (Jon Eaves)
3. RE: uml and cms (Nuno Lopes)
4. Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS (joseph martins)
5. Re: Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS (Jon Eaves)
6. RE: Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS (Lionel Laratte)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:13:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: David Neeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [cms-list] Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS
Although my experience as a technical writer tells me
that Word is a rather miserable tool for long
technical document creation, obviously others differ.
(Isn't it interesting to note that while coders *are*
frequently consulted about tools they will be using,
technical writers *rarely* are!).
However, documents stored in a CMS that will need to
be accessed through an undetermined period of years
may well be problematic, given the periodic evolution
of the .doc format.
As others have said, I am hoping that the apparent
migration by Microsoft to an XML-based storage
alternative is realized in fact. This will make the
whole situation MUCH easier to deal with.
Further, companies presently relying upon Word files
for critical document storage should plan on using the
XML-enabled Word when it is launched to redefine the
legacy .doc files as XML to avoid this kind of
potential future problem.
David
"From experience I can tell you that MS Word works
well as a content authoring tool and content storage
format for many companies. They may have no need for,
or may simply be unprepared for anything different."
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:04:10 +1000
From: Jon Eaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [cms-list] uml and cms
Hi all,
I'd just like to add my weight to some of Nuno's comments.
2) Everyone knows or is able to understand an UML diagram.
Well, I've found that most of my customers don't want to know UML in
anyway what so ever. So basically even If I intended to use UML Class
Diagrams to pass through how information is structured to my customers
(what is a business party?, What is a facility?, What is a contact etc)
it would an un -reworded effort in most cases. Customer rather prefer to
have a reference sheet were they can browse for specific Business
Classes.
This is true in most cases. Customers can generally read a "Functional
Specification" because it's in plain words and describes what they are
going to get out of things. I've had no end of trouble trying to
get customers to agree to systems that are described in UML and have
ended up writing summary documents so they will agree. UML is great
for technical people to build up documents to describe what is going
to happen, it's pretty lousy for people who aren't UML savvy.
Cheers,
-- jon
--
Jon Eaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.eaves.org/jon/
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "Nuno Lopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [cms-list] uml and cms
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 02:48:32 +0100
For those in Java world a tool that I've used 2 years ago was TogetherJ
(what an amazing tool), I've found it much better then Rational Rose or
Visio from designing systems (architecture and so on) to coding
(www.togethersoft.com).
Now I'm more into .NET when I have the time to actually code so the tool
is no use for me, but nevertheless amazing for Java IMO.
Best regards,
Nuno Lopes
Independent Consultant
PS: The tool is not sheep but aren't all UML tools designed for
enterprise level development expensive (end-to-end tools)?
--__--__--
Message: 4
From: "joseph martins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 00:30:14 -0400
Subject: [cms-list] Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS
Although my experience as a technical writer tells me
that Word is a rather miserable tool for long
technical document creation, obviously others differ.
(Isn't it interesting to note that while coders *are*
frequently consulted about tools they will be using,
technical writers *rarely* are!).
I absolutely agree with both points. Word is a miserable tool for long
technical document creation - there are superior alternatives. I prefer
FrameMaker. And writers are rarely consulted about the tools they will be
using - worse still, CM vendors tend to lump all writers together and refer
to them collectively as "writers" and "non-technical users". In fact,
there are over 50 different careers in writing (technical writing is but
one), and uncountably many personal styles/techniques for putting pen to
paper.
However, documents stored in a CMS that will need to
be accessed through an undetermined period of years
may well be problematic, given the periodic evolution
of the .doc format.
The same can be said about terabytes of content in numerous other formats.
This is an ongoing issue.
As others have said, I am hoping that the apparent
migration by Microsoft to an XML-based storage
alternative is realized in fact. This will make the
whole situation MUCH easier to deal with.
I'm also hopeful that the adoption rate of other XML word processors from
Arbortext, Corel, and Adobe will pick up and reach critical mass over the
next 5 years. It would certainly make life a little easier.
--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:44:34 +1000
From: Jon Eaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [cms-list] Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS
[ WARNING: Anti-Microsoft sentiment expressed, read at own risk ]
As others have said, I am hoping that the apparent
migration by Microsoft to an XML-based storage
alternative is realized in fact. This will make the
whole situation MUCH easier to deal with.
I'm also hopeful that the adoption rate of other XML word processors from
Arbortext, Corel, and Adobe will pick up and reach critical mass over the
next 5 years. It would certainly make life a little easier.
If anybody honestly believes (as apposed to hopes) that Microsoft
will make their document encoding formats completely transparent
then I've got a bridge you might like to buy. XML is not the logic
or actual data contents. XML is just the tag based output format.
I can produce an undocumented XML DTD that is just as proprietary
as the current Word document format.
Microsoft has traditionally make money by the forced upgrades of
users across their application base. This was the operating system
and their application suites. Now, customers are deciding not to
leap on the upgrade treadmill, especially with the OS.
This leaves the Office suite as their remaining cash cow. If they
make the entire document format transparent then the cost of shifting
from MS-Word to StarOffice, Corel, <whatever> is essentially zero.
This friction to change (which is currently considerable in some
organisations) is what keeps people paying the $$ to Microsoft year-in,
year-out when in many cases there are viable alternatives.
Of course, Microsoft may prove me wrong, and in which case, I'd be
delighted.
Cheers,
-- jon
--
Jon Eaves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
http://www.eaves.org/jon/
--__--__--
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 06:40:52 -0400
From: Lionel Laratte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: [cms-list] Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS
To: 'joseph martins' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Interesting thread: I bought a copy of StarOffice (from Sun) to evaluate
and love it. Everything is XML with it but it also reads/writes Word's
.doc format. Hate to sound like a commercial but, for eighty bucks, it
is worth it. I am seeing how I can work it into our department's
workflow...the XML is definitely a reason that justifies it. Just my
two cents. Thanks.
Lionel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:cms-list-admin@;cms-list.org]
On Behalf Of joseph martins
Sent: Saturday, October 26, 2002 12:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [cms-list] Re: PDF/Word document management in CMS
Although my experience as a technical writer tells me
that Word is a rather miserable tool for long
technical document creation, obviously others differ.
(Isn't it interesting to note that while coders *are*
frequently consulted about tools they will be using,
technical writers *rarely* are!).
I absolutely agree with both points. Word is a miserable tool for long
technical document creation - there are superior alternatives. I prefer
FrameMaker. And writers are rarely consulted about the tools they will
be
using - worse still, CM vendors tend to lump all writers together and
refer
to them collectively as "writers" and "non-technical users". In fact,
there are over 50 different careers in writing (technical writing is but
one), and uncountably many personal styles/techniques for putting pen to
paper.
However, documents stored in a CMS that will need to
be accessed through an undetermined period of years
may well be problematic, given the periodic evolution
of the .doc format.
The same can be said about terabytes of content in numerous other
formats.
This is an ongoing issue.
As others have said, I am hoping that the apparent
migration by Microsoft to an XML-based storage
alternative is realized in fact. This will make the
whole situation MUCH easier to deal with.
I'm also hopeful that the adoption rate of other XML word processors
from
Arbortext, Corel, and Adobe will pick up and reach critical mass over
the
next 5 years. It would certainly make life a little easier.
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