2025年9月10日(水) 20:09 G. Branden Robinson <[email protected]>: > > That's not just observing, that's participating. This was exactly my > > point: one can't follow a ticket UNLESS one adds a comment. > > As Chet pointed out, one can instead subscribe to this list, bug-bash.
This mailing list only receives the notification of a new ticket, meaning that replies therein won't be notified here. If one wants to follow the discussions without being included on the CC list, one needs to repeatedly open the ticket pages that one is interested in. A new message is sometimes posted to a very old ticket, so one actually needs to visit all existing tickets regularly, which is impractical. > > There has been a depressing display of ad-hominem attacks on what is > > supposed to be a technical mailing list. > > I don't agree. An ad hominem attack is a fallacy wherein one attempts > to imply that a person's claim is false due to a defect of their > character or circumstances. I think Martin is talking about the following reply from you: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-bash/2025-09/msg00086.html > > than having everything is gatewayed through a “boss” human. To me it > > feels like the FSF has become an unapproachable cathedral, while > > commercial systems like Github & Bitbucket are more like bazaars where > > participation is encouraged. > > Oh, I see, you're a member of the ESR school. Forget my advice. There > is likely no hope for you. So I guess you didn't mean to disagree Martin's claim by the above paragraph, but you just commented it as an independent statement, which is independent of the discussion itself. Why did you need to include the above paragraph if it was independent of the discussion? By the way, what is the ESR school? What do you specifically mean by "no hope for Martin"? Why there is no hope for a member of the ESR school? > > So the situation is not going to improve until either (a) there are > > substantial improvements to Savane and Savannah, > > Not that I expect _you_ to listen, [...] You imply that Martin won't hear, but is that true? How did you know Martin's future responses? > I'll give you an example. > > The foregoing is something of which I thought most people had acquired > understanding by the age of 20 or so. I might not be mistaken, but > rather some people find sport in pretending they lack it. Are you also playing a sport to pretend to lack it by posting the long discussion on Martin? This is a mailing list for technical issues of Bash. Martin is not a part of the Bash program, and this is not a place to debug Martin's behavior. If you wanted to tell something to Martin in good faith, you should have sent a private message to Martin (even if you somehow believe Martin won't listen). By broadcasting this entire discussion, your purpose appears to be showing off your supiriority to Martin to hundreds of people in the bug-bash mailing list, rather than telling Martin an advice. After all, an adult wouldn't create a topic named "On <someone's name>" in a technical mailing list. I also feel there is some room to improve the way Martin argues if he wishes, but I think it is a part of Martin's character. I don't think it is a big problem, though as Chet mentioned, I think Martin is undermining his arguments with his behavior to some extent. > [3] Or demonstrably false, even. Koichi Murase and Grisha Levit, for > example, have repeatedly and recently made reports that Chet > welcomed and contributed patches that he incorporated. You might > consider closely emulating their approach and see if your reception > improves. Grisha and I mostly raise trivial fixes (segfaults, memleaks, clear bugs, small improvements in the behavior, etc.), and they are essentially different from a typical discussion (related to the development and the language design) raised by Martin, which is expected to cause conflicts among different people having different pictures about Bash, etc.
