I suspect though that you need servers engineered to fit onto their heatsinks.

This is the main crux of my previous criticism for direct-contact liquid-cooling solutions, the cooling piping and heat exchanger(s) can be retrofit to existing server designs with minimal re-engineering. And even for immersive cooling, you just remove the case altogether, or make it completely sealed to contain the coolant, both of which require minimal re-engineering. This solution looks like it would require major rethinking of how components are organized.

Prentice

On 1/28/19 12:24 PM, John Hearns wrote:
Prentice, the website refers to Open Compute racks. "... technology has been designed to fit into standard Open Compute racks". So yep, 19 inch racks are not being targeted here. But OCP is pretty widespread. I would really like to find out if they can retrofit these to existing kit. I suspect though that you need servers engineered to fit onto their heatsinks. orced Physics cooling technology has been designed to fit into Standard Open Compute Racks. orced Physics cooling technology has been designed to fit into Standard Open Compute Racks.


On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 16:48, Prentice Bisbal via Beowulf <beowulf@beowulf.org <mailto:beowulf@beowulf.org>> wrote:

    So I was thinking about this over the weekend (because I
    apparently have nothing better to do with my time), and I
    definitely think this is a non-starter due to the massive change
    in server hardware layout to accommodate this thing. Yes, blades,
    and twin form factor servers already required that, and they're
    common form factors, but those form factors were just a matter of
    shrinking or changing the layout of the motherboard but still look
    like "traditional" layouts to the untrained eye, and they were
    still designed with typical front-to-back air cooling in mind. I
    feel like re-arranging the layout of components to accomodate this
    thing is a just more of a change than the market will accept.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Prentice

    On 1/25/19 3:56 PM, Prentice Bisbal wrote:

    Eric,

    I was suspecting that might be the case, but the explanations in
    the other articles were way too vague to be sure of that. The
    NextPlatform provided much better pictures. If that's the case,
    this thing operates like a direct-expansion (DX) refrigeration
    system, where the refrigerant is air and does not change state
    from liquid to gas, like a typical DX refrigeration system, and
    the induced-draft fan provides the shaft work, and those tiny
    channels that allegedly line up the molecules act as many tiny
    offices for the throttling process. Based on the pictures in the
    Next Platform article, here is a crude drawing of cross-section
    of one of these devices that I drew in Google Draw. It should
    help you understand what's going inside this thing:

    
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UK94PxVlQtVSb2ns5TbCqHjPJ1vYSOmkGSeSorvHyaM/edit?usp=sharing

    Given this design, you can only have an induced-draft fan on the
    outlet. A forced-draft fan on the inlet would compress the air,
    heating it up and negating the throttling (or Joule-Thompson)
    effect on the low-pressure side.

    At the end of the day, thermodynamics still says X amount of
    shaft work has to be done to provide Y amount of cooling through
    this process, so I'm still skeptical of it, especially at scale.

    And for those of you looking for something really boring to read
    rather than work, here are the related patents. I haven't read
    them myself.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US8414847

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US8986627B2

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US10113774B2

    Prentice
    On 1/25/19 2:26 PM, Eric Moore wrote:
    Actually, it looks like Joule-Thompson cooling to me (Especially
    given the "Joule Force" name). You've got the air intake
    (ambient), then an expansion nozzle, into a low-pressure region,
    which is created by the fan at the end. So the outlet velocity
    of the air (and thus it's kinetic energy) is higher than the
    inlet velocity, which would lower the internal energy, and thus
    the temperature. Instead the fins/nozzle/heatsink transfer heat
    to the expanding gas, which exits a little above
    ambient temperature. I imagine the drawback is you really need
    to get rid of that high velocity hot air, and can't recirculate
    it, or the kinetic energy would be converted back to thermal
    energy, and mess it all up. The descriptions do all involve the
    exhaust air being ducted to the outside. This article has the
    most technical detail:
    
https://www.nextplatform.com/2018/12/04/the-leading-edge-of-air-cooled-servers-leads-to-the-edge/

    On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 11:33 AM Prentice Bisbal via Beowulf
    <beowulf@beowulf.org <mailto:beowulf@beowulf.org>> wrote:

        You all know how much I like talking about heat transfer and
        server cooling, so I decided to do some research on this
        product:

        Here's their website:

        https://forcedphysics.com

        and here's their YouTube channel with 5 videos:

        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClwWeahYGuNl0THWVz1Hyow/videos

        This is really nothing more than an air-cooled heatsink. I'm
        afraid I'm going to have to call BS on this technology for
        the following reasons:

        1. It still uses air as the primary cooling medium. I just
        don't think air has adequate thermal conductivity or thermal
        capacity to serve modern processor, no matter what you do to
        it.

        2. In the videos, they present highly idealized tests with
        no control to use for comparison. How do I know I wouldn't
        get the same results doing the same experiment but using a
        similar duct fashioned out of sheet metal.

        3. Using this technology means a complete redesign of your
        server hardware and possibly your racks.

        4. None of the information in the videos or on their website
        really explains how this technology works, and what really
        differentiates it from any other air-cooled heat sink. Most
        people with a good invention are usually excited to tell you
        how it works. Since they brag about 30 international patents
        for this, there's no need to try to protect a trade secret.

        5. This statement:

        The fins work like teeth in a comb, neatly orienting air
        molecules to point in the same direction and arranging them
into columns.

        Based on my education, this statement seems to be completely
        devoid of science.

        This statement seems to defy the laws of physics. Last time
        I checked, unless an atom or molecule is at absolute zero,
        it has movement, whether it's spinning or vibrating, or
        both, so how can they get air molecules to line up all in
        neat little rows, where the molecules are all pointing the
        same way?

        This also implies very laminar flow.  As fluid velocity
        increases that the diameter of the channel decreases, the
        Reynolds Number increases. As the Reynold's number goes up,
        turbulence increases, so mathematically, I would expect this
        flow to be tubulent, and not laminar. From my classes on
        heat transfer, turbulent flow around the heat transfer
        surface increases heat transfer, so laminar flow in this
        case wouldn't be a good thing.

        Until they can provide better comparisons with real servers
        in real data center environments, I'm going to classify this
        as "snake oil"

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snake_oil

        Prentice

        On 1/24/19 3:54 PM, chuck_pet...@selinc.com
        <mailto:chuck_pet...@selinc.com> wrote:
        Well, this is interesting.

        "According to Forced Physics’ <https://forcedphysics.com/
        [forcedphysics.com]
        
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__forcedphysics.com_&d=DwMFAw&c=-_uRSsrpJskZgEkGwdW-sXvhn_FXVaEGsm0EI46qilk&r=fawF3TRTwCqlaBkoLcxYCr4F4NRwCc64hmEgi9rHPpE&m=zr6lAlVphGxOQTXSElww9hGpqb9IZPik0_MN2v8Fqjs&s=lb4Hi9X8NKIYWe_e1RU3Cw4gr9Uz_B7n5pnCNY0ss3U&e=>>
        chief technology officer, David Binger, the company’s
        conductor can help a typical data center eliminate its need
        for water or refrigerants and shrink its 22-MW load by 7.72
        MW, which translates to an annual reduction of 67.6 million
        kWh. That data center could also save a total of US $45
        million a year on infrastructure, operating, and energy
        costs with the new system, according to Binger. “We are
        solving the problem that electrons create,” he said."

        A Cooler Cloud: A Clever Conduit Cuts Data Centers’ Cooling
        Needs by 90 Percent
        
https://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/environment/a-cooler-cloud-a-clever-conduit-cuts-data-centers-cooling-needs-by-90-percent
        [spectrum.ieee.org]
        
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__spectrum.ieee.org_energy_environment_a-2Dcooler-2Dcloud-2Da-2Dclever-2Dconduit-2Dcuts-2Ddata-2Dcenters-2Dcooling-2Dneeds-2Dby-2D90-2Dpercent&d=DwMFAw&c=-_uRSsrpJskZgEkGwdW-sXvhn_FXVaEGsm0EI46qilk&r=fawF3TRTwCqlaBkoLcxYCr4F4NRwCc64hmEgi9rHPpE&m=zr6lAlVphGxOQTXSElww9hGpqb9IZPik0_MN2v8Fqjs&s=VuDTSuinKPMpF6NCztFZkSGOVo3LD7MLjroIj_sn0ao&e=>



        Chuck Petras, PE**
        Schweitzer Engineering Laboratories, Inc
        Pullman, WA  99163  USA
        http://www.selinc.com <http://www.selinc.com/>

        SEL Synchrophasors - A New View of the Power System
        <http://synchrophasor.selinc.com
        <http://synchrophasor.selinc.com/>>

        Making Electric Power Safer, More Reliable, and More
        Economical (R)

        ** Registered in Oregon.

        _______________________________________________
        Beowulf mailing list,Beowulf@beowulf.org  <mailto:Beowulf@beowulf.org>  
sponsored by Penguin Computing
        To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) 
visithttp://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
        _______________________________________________
        Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org
        <mailto:Beowulf@beowulf.org> sponsored by Penguin Computing
        To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe)
        visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf

    _______________________________________________
    Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org
    <mailto:Beowulf@beowulf.org> sponsored by Penguin Computing
    To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit
    http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf

_______________________________________________
Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org sponsored by Penguin Computing
To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit 
http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf

Reply via email to