On Wed, 8 Feb 2006, Donald Becker wrote:
The bottom line is that we are considering a message board format to replace the mailing list. It would have required logins to post, and retroactive moderation to delete advertising and trolls. Any opinions?
Dear Don, Sigh. A pain in the ass, obviously, for everybody involved:-( I'm more than a bit concerned (as, I'm sure, are you) that moving to a message board with authentication and everything would "kill" the dynamism of the list that is one of its greatest assets. I personally participate in the list as much as I do (which yes, may be "too much":-) BECAUSE it is inline with my regular email processing every day. I spend hours a day processing my mail as it comes in, and if a message or thread on the list catches my eye I join in. I suspect that everybody else on the list does much the same -- email is asynchronous so nobody HAS to participate if they are busy, but it is very easy to graze through the list threads and jump in where there is time or motivation to do so. Would I take the additional time every day to deliberately visit a web or other interface to the list? To login and authenticate every time I wanted to post? I don't know. It certainly would be another barrier, a fairly significant one, to participation, as instead of it taking two minutes to dash off a reply (typing like the wind:-) it would take five, with most of it spent "messing with things" instead of just hitting R. I also think that it would form a significant barrier to joining the list, although I could be wrong -- there are certainly linux-central sites that do maintain decent user participation, but I tend to think of this too as being a bit of a hassle. On the other hand, I do appreciate the problem. SpamAssassin traps between 60 and 80 MB of mail per week to me PERSONALLY, all eliminated without my ever looking at it. Every day the ratio of spam/virus crap noise to desired signal IN WHAT REMAINS AND MAKES IT THROUGH is something like 9:1 or maybe even worse. I'm thinking of writing some custom traps for the worst classes of stealth spam that is making it through SA's filters, and I'm pretty certain that I'm losing a fraction of 1% of mail sent to me as false positives (I do not, cannot, check the rejects -- I'd go insane and never get ANY work done). Spam and viruses are horribly expensive, but Congress is too busy passing stuff like the DCMA to take notice. (Grrrr) There are two things to consider, though, before you make any large and irreversible change in the way the list operates. One is that I would EXPECT that all sane humans ON this list already have SA or some other virus/spam filter in place on the receiving end as well. The other is that I would EXPECT that the overwhelming majority of list participants are running linux, freebsd, or a variant of Unix and hence are more or less invulnerable to 99.9% of the free range viruses in the email universe. Between the two of them, I personally didn't notice that the virus DID slip through your filters. It either was filtered out before I ever saw it (I don't whitelist nothin' outside of duke.edu, not even beowulf.org:-) or I deleted it in passing without even thinking twice about it, along with the OTHER fifty virus hits I get every day that make it through the filters. Since there has been little to no on-list outrage about getting the virus, I can only assume that this is the most common experience of list members. Nobody noticed, nobody who DID notice cared, nearly everybody protected and not terribly vulnerable to what makes it past their protection. I'm personally pretty satisfied with the way the list has been run and think that you do a great job. I also think that any people on list who ARE stupid enough to a) run Windows with something like Outlook as their primary email interface and b) don't run some sort of firewall, spam filter, and above all expensively up to date antivirus program on their system to protect it "deserve" what happens to them (not really of course) and can hardly hold you or this list responsible for the rare virus or spam that slips through. Ultimately, I think that the only solution to the spam/virus problem is one of purely practical social/legal engineering. Something like electroshock therapy applied to delicate body parts of first-time offenders while they are forced to delete an infinite stream of spam and listen to Beethoven would be nice. Embedding the feet of repeat offenders in concrete and pitching them into a nearby bay would be even better -- I'll bet you could raise cheering crowds to watch and help with the pitching. Sigh. However much we can dream -- ultimately, y'all are in a corporate gig and have to pay humans or time to run the list. I certainly don't think you need to spend MORE time to keep the list clean, and as noted above think you could probably get away with less and let the list recipients deal with a little more of what slips through. I personally would rather see this than a message board, but if you feel that the latter is all that you can manage I understand. rgb -- Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/ Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305 Durham, N.C. 27708-0305 Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
