Hi Erich,
I agree with you totally regarding "derived works",
the dividing line is "derived works" versus "original works".
They cannot be treated equally,
Macros.h, dict_prims.c, dict_secs.c are in fact "derived works" and there is
no issue they are GPLv3 just as AmForth is.
This issue is with "riscv_pal.h" which is in fact an "original work" with
its own licensing,
it has no connection with AmForth other being included in AmForth
"derived works"
much like Microsoft does with "Windows.h" ("original works").
"Original works" cannot be included in GPLv3 works (AmForth "derived works")
for distribution without respecting the licensing of the "original works".
Again this meant to be a friendly discussion,
Regards,
John S
On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 12:29 PM Erich Wälde <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> if I create some code under GPLv3, then this license extents to
> "derived works". If someone wants to include my code into their
> works, it could be a problem.
>
> However, if I include some code under MIT, I can still publish
> my code under GPLv3. That does NOT lead to the included file
> change its license. I must not claim, the included code is mine.
> If I made changes, I need to clearly document them, and the
> original license still applies to said code including my
> changes.
>
> There is LGPL, such that you can link to my code without its
> license extent to your code. But this "linking" does not apply
> to Forth, because there is no linking.
>
> There is AGPL, such that you cannot hide my GPL code as a
> service behind a web interface.
>
>
> You can still build your application using GPL components in the
> form of say
> - underlying OS (think linux or *BSD)
> - supporting separate software components (think postgresql)
> - loaded or linked to libraries and their header files (think glibc)
> provided you distribute all this to your customer in the
> preferred from of modifikation, i.e. source code. It does not
> extend to your application code.
>
> In my understanding, you cannot use GPL code, mix it into your
> application source code, i.e. produce a derived work, and then
> sell the result to a customer in compiled form without giving
> away the complete code. That does not work, because in this case
> you are producing a derived work. THIS is the exact purpose of
> copy-left licenses. You shall not produce a "derived work" and
> hide it's source code.
>
>
> I'm still not a lawyer. But actually reading the license text
> may help.
>
>
> I will not agree to AmForth changing its license.
> We had this discussion before, there is nothing new so far.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Erich
>
>
>
> John Sarabacha <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > Hi Carsten,
> > So if I wrote a Windows11 application and gave it a GPLv3 licensing and
> > included
> > the header file "windows.h", it and all it's nested includes would now
> be
> > GPLv3 and
> > Microsoft is forced to release it's source code with any distribution.
> > How long do you think it would take before Microsoft police would show up
> > at my door?
> > I am sure Linus (Linux creator) knew this as well.
> >
> > Again intended as a friendly exchange,
> > Regards,
> > John S
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 11, 2026 at 3:51 AM Carsten Strotmann via Amforth-devel <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On 11 Feb 2026, at 9:32, John Sarabacha wrote:
> >>
> >> > dedicatedcomputer.ca/test
> >> > Please examine the license terms on riscv_pal.h
> >>
> >> I'm not a lawyer, but in my experience with these kinds of questions,
> >> "riscv_pal.h" is clearly part of the final product, included into
> >> "dict_prims.c", which is "Licensing Compatible with AmForth (GPL3)",
> which
> >> equals GPLv3, so "riscv_pal.h" must also be licensed under GPLv3.
> >>
> >> > If I supply this file it doesn't mean I give up my rights under this
> >> > license.
> >>
> >> Well, from the nature of the license and the nature of the code, you've
> >> placed the code in "riscv_pal.h" under GPLv3.
> >>
> >> > Sometimes this freeness is not always on equal terms. Some will take
> >> > advantage.
> >>
> >> Yes, and that is why people choose GPLv3 to prevent that people take
> >> advantage.
> >>
> >> Greetings
> >>
> >> Carsten
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> >> [email protected]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
> --
> May the Forth be with you ...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
>
_______________________________________________
Amforth-devel mailing list for http://amforth.sf.net/
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amforth-devel
