RDOF does require speed testing. That's not relevant to any customer router mandate.
I do my testing with Raspberry Pis. Net Neutrality & Title II are out. On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 1:41 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > I’m not sure about BEAD, but I think some of the other federally funded > programs like CAF and RDOF required the ISP to test actual speeds on a > regular basis which would seem to mean routers with something like SamKnows > (acquired by Cisco) built in for some percentage of customers in each > area. So that would conflict with customer providing their own router, > unless they do double NAT. > > > > My memory is fuzzy but it’s possible that personal device attachment > rights were part of the Net Neutrality rules and thus got thrown out. > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2025 12:10 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > I have no idea where you're getting this customer own router thing. ISPs > are not title II and I believe that can't come up again once we swing back > to a Dem. > > > > For our FTTH, we do not do ANY inside wiring. We have a 50 foot jumper > from the outside (in an outside plastic box, NID) that goes inside. One > exterior wall. We plug it in and we are done. We do not do ANY > copper/cate5/cat6 - this eliminates any 100baseT mess, scotch locks, > customers touching it, water, etc. It's on or off - 100% speed or broken. > > > > We are providing a Calix u6x so it is our ONT + wifi router + ata. It's > included with service, no exceptions. That drastically cuts down on the > support calls. > > > > >Do you really run the drops one time and then just collect the monthly > revenue? > > > > Yes! > > > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 11:46 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > I thought it was an extension of Carterfone and Part 68. > > Did that end up getting tied to Internet being Title I vs Title II > depending on whether the D’s or R’s were in power? > > In any case, you can probably avoid it by including the CPE in the cost of > the service so the customer doesn’t save money by buying their own router. > Although some media and advocacy groups keep telling them the ISP will give > you a cheap crappy router. > > > > For our WISP I tell customers they can provide their own router but not > their own radio (SM) or POE injector. > > > > I think it might also change if you are providing TV or VoIP, unless you > have those broken out from the ONT ahead of a separate router. > > > > In Part 68 telco terms, the question is where is the network interface. I > hope nobody would argue that you need to give the customer an optical PON > handoff. But it could be a GigE or 2.5 GigE handoff from an ONT. > > > > Given that I’m ignorant about FTTH, I also wonder how much inside wiring > you get into. Do you run fiber to where they want the router and put an > ONT there? ONT just inside the house and run Cat6 from there? Charge > extra if the customer wants inside wiring? Telcos charged for anything > beyond the demarc, and would also sell “Linebacker” maintenance plans for > inside wiring. I’ve had 2 incidences in the past 2 days of existing > customers rerouting the Cat5 to a different room and then needing help. > One used butt splices and Scotchloks and it was a nightmare. The other > went out and bought some passthrough plugs and a crimp tool and did a > beautiful job, the problem was he had an old Ubiquiti POE with the reset > button and defaulted the radio. When houses sell or get new tenants, they > also often want it run to a different room. I’m not sure if fiber is any > different. Do you really run the drops one time and then just collect the > monthly revenue? > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2025 9:27 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > The average customer still uses 4 mbps. Doesn't matter if they have 10 > mbps at home or 4,000 mbps at home. > > Lots of people get the 2G+ because they think they need it. That's really > the driving factor, nothing technical at all. ISPs do it because we like > the extra revenue. > > I don't know of any FCC requirement to allow the customer having their own > router. Where did you hear that? > > > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2025 at 9:55 AM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > > It must be a challenge if you offer multigigabit service. I see a > GigaSpire 7u10txg on their website and can just imagine what that must > cost. Plus maybe having to dedicate a strand and an ONU port to that > customer. > > > > Presumably 2-10 gigabit plans would be like the Corvette in the Chevy > dealership showroom, you need one to draw customers, who look at it and > then buy a Malibu or Silverado. Do you price 5 Gbps just $20/mo more than > 1 Gbps knowing the customer won’t use the extra bandwidth? But then do you > incur a bunch of extra hardware costs, and do you not worry about it > because it’s one time not recurring cost? And what about mesh extenders, > because I assume the multigig people often have large homes, and the magic > of WiFi7 won’t necessarily work 5 rooms and 2 floors away. > > > > And I believe the FCC requires that you let the customer use their own > router, but does the customer realize how difficult it will be to actually > get those 5 Gbps speedtests they crave while using the WiFi router they > chose and bought from Amazon or Best Buy? > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2025 7:40 AM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > Are you using the u6x? I've had an unfair amount of issues with them when > upgrading. Handful of DOAs. As long as I don't touch them (upgrade EXOS > or AXOS), they stay running. > > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 5:52 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > We are as small as they come and have been 100% Calix from the beginning. > > > > > > *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman > *Sent:* Monday, December 15, 2025 12:50 PM > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > I know myself and others are pretty small - at least I would think we are. > > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 12:02 PM Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'd imagine anyone building smaller systems would be in a similar boat. > > > > > -- > Mike Hammett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Luthman" <[email protected]> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2025 10:53:10 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > That one :P > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 11:26 AM Mike Hammett < [email protected] > wrote: > > > Which half? > > I know someone else has complained about the Adtran purchase process. > Every time you go to your distributor, they have to get a fresh quote from > Adtran about what *YOUR* price is for the qty of SKU you want. > > > > > -- > Mike Hammett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Josh Luthman" < [email protected] > > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [email protected] > > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2025 8:44:37 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > I feel like Mike is the only one with that complaint. > > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2025 at 8:47 AM Mike Hammett < [email protected] > wrote: > > > The Adtran purchase process is dreadful. Their training isn't as easy to > come across. > > > > > -- > Mike Hammett > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jason McKemie" < [email protected] > > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < [email protected] > > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2025 6:32:38 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > I have some Calix active gear in the field, and I was using some Gigaspire > routers. I've since switched to Ubiquiti GPON and it has been very solid > since I started using it, which was several years ago. Adtran supposedly > has a good product line-up and I'm told it is more reasonable than Calix, > although I was never able to get pricing. The Calix stuff works well, but > is best when you're spending OPM. > > > On Sun, Dec 14, 2025, 11:40 AM Ken Hohhof < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > > Good info all of you. > > > > I started thinking about this when I saw a Reddit post by an ISP customer > who went to the Calix website and said it was “creepy as hell”. But the > post was 6 years ago, and you have to take stuff people post on the > Internet with a grain of salt. > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/gd46zy/my_isp_will_require_the_calix_gigacenter_in_my/ > > > > I do remember talking to Calix at a WISPAmerica show, I think the last one > I went to was St. Louis in 2015 so it must have been at least 10 years ago. > The guy was very helpful and I think even lived near me, but after > following up decided my company wasn’t nearly big enough to use them. Had > to create an account, send people to training, buy direct not through > distribution, just to kick the tires and do a lab eval of the WiFi > performance. My impression was they were for ISPs that would buy equipment > by the truckload, and also they were kind of a no sex before marriage > company, not even a kiss. Take the plunge and commit. But that was 10 years > ago. > > > > Another thing someone else has mentioned to me is ISP customers look at > their router and assume their ISP is named something like GigaSpire BLAST, > and that’s who to call for support. Reminds me of the old days when lots of > people said their Internet provider was named Linksys. I’m sure many of us > had prospective customers say Internet is free, they use that free provider > Linksys, and question why we wanted to charge them. > > > > > > From: AF < [email protected] > On Behalf Of Chuck > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2025 8:17 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Calix question > > > > I have built 3 different companies using Calix and have had no problems > like you describe below. Xgs in an E7 shelf is pretty high density. And you > dont have to pay monthly if you dont want their managed router solution. > Never had a problem getting equipment. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 2025, at 5:55 AM, Mark Radabaugh < [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > Calix lost me when I needed higher density hardware and all they ever > wanted to talk about was how they were a cloud service company and look at > all our shiny toys you can pay us monthly for. Yeah - what about actually > hooking up customers? Oh, if you give us a two year forecast of what you > want to buy we will hook you up - just don’t count on them actually having > the equipment when you need it. > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2025, at 7:27 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies via AF < > [email protected] > wrote: > > > > > > Ken, > > > > > We use them. First of all their HW just works and works well. They may > seem to be expensive on the MRC, but they bring a bunch of other services > to the table. They will help with marketing, network engineering, etc. The > support is VERY responsive and the amount of data collected in the service > cloud is unbelievable. > > > > This is all they do, managed routers and fiber distribution. They have to > be top notch to survive. > > > > > They fit into our business model, but each business if different. > > > > > I would say give them a chance to give you a proposal. See what they bring > to the table. Maybe it is a fit, maybe not. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Mark mailto: [email protected] > > > > Myakka Communications > > www.Myakka.com > > > > ------ > > > > Saturday, December 13, 2025, 1:51:56 PM, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume some of the folks on this list who are doing fiber use Calix ONTs > and routers? > > > > If I go to the Calix website, maybe as a provider thinking of using them > as a vendor, I am totally confused. It is not clear what products they sell > or how I would use them. It all seems to be glossy marketing stuff about > their agentic AI cloud and market insights. I don’t see a single picture of > a piece of hardware. > > > > Is this how a lot of ISPs are making money despite charging low prices? Do > they have an “agentic workforce” monitoring how their customers use the > Internet, cross referencing it to demographics, and mining that data for > ads, upselling, etc.? It seems they have special cloud features for MDU > managers as well. > > > > It seems a lot of cable companies use Amazon’s eero, I wonder if service > provider eero is like Calix, or if it’s just the retail eero with a few > remote management features added. > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com > > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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