Hi, The suggested changes sound justified and sensible.
On Mon, May 11, 2020 at 7:56 AM < [email protected]> wrote: > Send ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ubuntu-studio-devel digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10) > (Erich Eickmeyer) > 2. Re: Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10) > ([email protected]) > 3. Re: Pre-Installed Application Review (effective for 20.10) > (eylul) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 15:23:41 -0700 > From: Erich Eickmeyer <[email protected]> > To: Ubuntu Studio Development <[email protected]> > Subject: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review > (effective for 20.10) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi all, > > So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of the > seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly remnants > at this point. Now, on to business. > > In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need to > review which applicationswe include by default. > > First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we > have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: > pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have > served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and > describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and > openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor > for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE software > (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE > Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need to > be including the most professional software we can, and right now > Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one of > the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for > keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version, > which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. > > You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while it > has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and > animation application, and video editing is not its default > configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. > > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in Ardour. > > Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally > capable of each other's functions, each has a different target audience. > Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced > graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as Eylul > has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. > > Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn > was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend > changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a > historically more powerful tool anyhow. > > Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation applications, > with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom. If > we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more > professional of the two. > > Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years, I > think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would be > a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to > easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial > recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of thing > makes my life millions of times easier. > > With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means add): > > -pitivi > -openshot > -calf > -brasero > +k3b > -rawtherapee > +digikam > > I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth > dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty hefty > download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an > increase of 0.1 with Plasma. > > And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most > involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow > this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little, if > any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet vocal > minority from ruling. > > Thanks, > Erich > ---- > Erich Eickmeyer > Project Leader > Ubuntu Studio > > ubuntustudio.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 488 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > URL: < > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/attachments/20200510/1db5efd8/attachment-0001.sig > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 21:50:46 -0700 > From: [email protected] > To: "Ubuntu Studio Development" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review > (effective for 20.10) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems > (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install. > > On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" wrote:Hi all, > > So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration of > the > seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly > remnants > at this point. Now, on to business. > > In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we need > to > review which applicationswe include by default. > > First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, we > have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: > pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have > served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors and > describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and > openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video editor > for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE > software > (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE > Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we need > to > be including the most professional software we can, and right now > Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in one > of > the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for > keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" version, > which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. > > You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, while > it > has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and > animation application, and video editing is not its default > configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. > > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and then > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used in > Ardour. > > Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally > capable of each other's functions, each has a different target > audience. > Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced > graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as > Eylul > has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. > > Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn > was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend > changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a > historically more powerful tool anyhow. > > Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation > applications, > with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe Lightroom. > If > we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more > professional of the two. > > Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of years, > I > think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam would > be > a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to > easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial > recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of > thing > makes my life millions of times easier. > > With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means > add): > > -pitivi > -openshot > -calf > -brasero > +k3b > -rawtherapee > +digikam > > I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth > dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty > hefty > download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an > increase of 0.1 with Plasma. > > And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most > involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply follow > this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very little, > if > any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet > vocal > minority from ruling. > > Thanks, > Erich > ---- > Erich Eickmeyer > Project Leader > Ubuntu Studio > > ubuntustudio.org > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/attachments/20200510/eeb48258/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 14:55:45 +0300 > From: eylul <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-studio-devel] Pre-Installed Application Review > (effective for 20.10) > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I would suggest adding: > > 1) Siril (photography) - astrophotography suite that does a series of > tasks related to it, including dealing with astrophotography specific > file formats, aligning and stacking of large number of images, dealing > with dark, flat and bias frames etc. (debian package: siril) > > 2) Hugin (photography) - panorama maker, also useful for making HDR > images, and aligning of some specific astrophotography and > non-astrophotography related aligning. (debian package hugin) > > 3) Godot (game design) - Godot is an open sourced gaming engine. it > looks like it finally is in debian repositories and we can put it in. :) > (current package is godot3. Godot 4.0 is expected to happen sometime in > the middle of 2020 through so worth watching) > > 4) Natron (video) - node based compositing software. (a commercial > example would be adobe after effects) it has an active userbase. The > main problem is that it is not in the repos, but it is available as a > snap (and also as a flatpak) > > There is some other software I would love to see in, but they don't have > repos/packages available so not sure it is feasible to discuss them. > > Could we start with the full list of software and work off of it? I am > worried we might miss less obvious overlaps or potential missing items. > For example we should probably look into video viewers (not sure we have > VLC installed by default) and what music players we have. I believe we > are not pre-installing some publishing packages like calibre, etc :) > > Best > > Eylul > > On 11.05.2020 07:50, [email protected] wrote: > > I have had good luck with Kdenlive for many years on several systems > > (hardware wise) and a very long-lived rolling OS install. > > > > On 5/10/2020 at 3:24 PM, "Erich Eickmeyer" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > So, first with the news: I'm done with the move and configuration > > of the > > seed to KDE Plasma. If there's anything Xfce left, it's mostly > > remnants > > at this point. Now, on to business. > > > > In an effort to cut-down on application purpose duplication, we > > need to > > review which applicationswe include by default. > > > > First, I would like to start off with the video editors. Currently, > we > > have three applications that describe themselves as video editors: > > pitivi, openshot, and kdenlive. At one point in time, these may have > > served different purposes, but all three of them are video editors > and > > describe themselves as such. My recommendation is to drop pitivi and > > openshot from the default install and use kdenlive as our video > editor > > for a number of reasons: 1) It's more feature-full, 2) It's KDE > > software > > (by carrying Plasma we carry most of its libraries including the KDE > > Frameworks), and 3) as a flavor for creative *professionals* we > > need to > > be including the most professional software we can, and right now > > Kdenlive fits that bill. If people need functionality that is in > > one of > > the others, it's just a download away. The other objection I have for > > keeping Openshot is that it has a nag button for the "latest" > version, > > which takes one to an appimage download, which isn't ideal. > > > > You will notice I leave Blender out of that discussion because, > > while it > > has video editing capabilities, it is primarily a 3D modeling and > > animation application, and video editing is not its default > > configuration. For this reason, we should leave Blender. > > > > Len and I have discussed removing the Calf plugins from the default > > install since lsp-plugins covers the things that Calf can do (and > then > > some), and Calf has a tendency to be prone to crashing when used > > in Ardour. > > > > Gimp vs Krita: I recommend keeping both since, while both are equally > > capable of each other's functions, each has a different target > > audience. > > Whereas Gimp targets photo manipulation, Krita targets advanced > > graphical art. We could lump MyPaint in with this as well, but as > > Eylul > > has discussed with me, it fits a different niche altogether. > > > > Brasero: I don't understand why we've been carrying this since Xfburn > > was also installed. Now that we no longer carry Xfce, I recommend > > changing that out for K3b since, once again, KDE, and since it is a > > historically more powerful tool anyhow. > > > > Darktable vs Rawtherapee: Both are RAW image manipulation > > applications, > > with Darktable closely fitting the functionality of Adobe > > Lightroom. If > > we had to pick just one, I'd say Darktable as it seems to be the more > > professional of the two. > > > > Additionally, while we haven't carried Shotwell in a number of > > years, I > > think we could do with a photo catalog program. I think Digikam > > would be > > a good addition since it has all sorts of plugins to enable people to > > easily catalog their photos, including features such as facial > > recognition and geolocation. I know as a photographer that kind of > > thing > > makes my life millions of times easier. > > > > With that, here's my recommendations so far (- means drop, + means > > add): > > > > -pitivi > > -openshot > > -calf > > -brasero > > +k3b > > -rawtherapee > > +digikam > > > > I'd love to hear thoughts about this, or other applications worth > > dropping. Remember, our ISO is a whopping 3.4GB, which is a pretty > > hefty > > download for some people. Also, believe it or not, that's only an > > increase of 0.1 with Plasma. > > > > And remember: this is a meritocracy, meaning those with the most > > involvement in the project have the most sway. Those who simply > follow > > this mailing list without being otherwise involved have very > > little, if > > any sway. This is in an effort to keep a potentially negative, yet > > vocal > > minority from ruling. > > > > Thanks, > > Erich > > ---- > > Erich Eickmeyer > > Project Leader > > Ubuntu Studio > > > > ubuntustudio.org > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/attachments/20200511/4d17146f/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > -- > ubuntu-studio-devel mailing list > [email protected] > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel > > > ------------------------------ > > End of ubuntu-studio-devel Digest, Vol 155, Issue 16 > **************************************************** >
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