Related to the anarchism comment above.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Gregory Disney <gregory.dis...@owasp.org>wrote: > I think Tor Project does follow Mihkal Bakunin principles on Freedom... > From Revolutionary Catechism: > III. Freedom is the absolute right of every adult man and woman to seek no > other sanction for their acts than their own conscience and their own > reason, being responsible first to themselves and then to the society which > they have *voluntarily *accepted. > > IV. It is not true that the freedom of one man is limited by that of other > men. Man is really free to the extent that his freedom, fully acknowledged > and mirrored by the free consent of his fellowmen, finds confirmation and > expansion in their liberty. Man is truly free only among equally free men; > the slavery of even one human being violates humanity and negates the > freedom of all. > > V. The *freedom *of each is therefore realizable only in the equality of > all. The realization of freedom through equality, in principle and in fact, > is *justice.* > > VI. If there is one fundamental principle of human morality, *it is > freedom*. To respect the freedom of your fellowman *is duty; *to love, > help, and serve him is *virtue.* > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 4:59 PM, NoName <antispa...@sent.at> wrote: > >> On 17.05.2013 19:50, David Vorick wrote: >> >>> Except I think that in this case Tor is a bit more like a gun than a >>> screw >>> driver. The good purposes aren't always obvious and the nefarious >>> purposes >>> are on the forefront of public attention a lot more. It's not a perfect >>> analogy but I think you see what I'm getting at. >>> >> >> It's amusing to see this over and over. And it's only a byproduct of how >> our minds and culture perceive things. It's always about good ol' times and >> about how the new things could sake the foundations of society to the point >> of breaking it. Than it becomes normal and people believe things were >> always like that. >> >> Take the steam engine. It was the devil's work. Mixing fire and water! >> That was against the creation itself. But it turned out to be quite >> practical. The Internet in general isn't any different. Only that banks >> have discovered they can fire half the tellers by launching Internet >> banking. So it was good business. And their short opening hours became >> 24/7. Is Internet bad? No! Of course not! No pedo would have the nerve to >> use the Internet. Why? Because banks and governments do. >> >> Was the steam engine used by the bad guys? Of course. Most of the early >> adopters were probably under the broad classification of bad guys. Because >> serfs weren't even allowed to travel in some countries. And noble men were >> not so eager to spend a lot of money on that. But generic bad guys were >> ready to spend a pretty penny to gain some speed and confort. Guess what! >> Two centuries after, bad guys still use mass transportation. Most of them. >> >> What about the phone? It was hard to get. It was expensive. In a poor >> neighbourhood was cheaper to send some child running. For longer distances >> there was the postal service. And for a quick delivery there was the >> telegraph. And all of them had a good network that could reach places where >> there was no phone line a century later. But creative bad guys saw the >> potential and started using it. For that you now have the so called lawful >> interception. Because most bad guys were using the phone. And they were >> using it more than the student son calling his momma. Mobile phones? So >> large they needed a car to make them portable? The G1. The bad guys had >> those too. And they were using them to coordonate and organise. Gee! The >> same end of the world scenario stupid press announces for Twitter. Only >> those radio phones were easy to intercept. Did the bad guys drop them? Heck >> no! They started using code words. >> >> 3d printers? Well, they can make guns! Big guns! That kill innocent >> people. Have you noticed the dead are always innocent? Even that b**** >> Tatcher was an angel. Same went for bittorrent. Now they are using it to >> push the distribution of movies to digital cinemas, to infect your PC with >> paid closed source software. So today not all torrents are criminal. And >> ISPs don't block bt ports anymore. Wait a bit for the 3d printers. When >> Lego would distribute its silly toys by making you pay for the plastic too >> it would be a nice thing abused by some script kiddies. >> >> >> >> The purpose of Tor is to liberate people from state control and >>> censorship. >>> Informally, the purpose of Tor is to help people break rules. We support >>> Tor because we want oppressive rules to be broken but ultimately it's an >>> anarchist tool, and that's something that's not going to sit well with >>> the >>> public. >>> >> >> Don't be such a child! >> >> State control? How about ISP control? How about corporate control? How >> about abusive partners or parents? In those countries called not–free by >> the corporate media children walk around free. They even have to work and >> be treated as adults from an early age. Even when the village is next to >> the minefield they go working in the morning and return home at night. And >> that's no video game. At the same time, in the free world as the press >> likes to intelectually masturbate children are under house arrest. They are >> under total control. Want to chat with your 4th grade colleague to prepare >> the homework? Want to use that new and wonderful skill of writing? Now get >> adult supervision! Under 13 or 17 or 18 or 21? Your account can be >> terminated. Parents install filtering software and want access to social >> media accounts and passworded diaries. What could seem exagerated for 1984 >> is daily life for some kids in the industrialised world. >> >> The purpose of Tor is not to break rules. Is to offer privacy. And guess >> what? Most private people don't break any rules. >> >> Oppresive rules are not broken by Tor. See, Even FBI and DEA are using it. >> >> And anarchism is not about that. Good timing with grafitti can be much >> more valuable. >> >> But it's funny that you use the term public, after all that flag waving. >> Most people I've met use the term public or masses as a way of putting >> themselves above the crowds. >> >> Cheers! >> >> ______________________________**_________________ >> tor-talk mailing list >> tor-talk@lists.torproject.org >> https://lists.torproject.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-**talk<https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk> >> > > _______________________________________________ tor-talk mailing list tor-talk@lists.torproject.org https://lists.torproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/tor-talk
