absolutely KR On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 at 16:30, Madras Sivaraman <[email protected]> wrote:
> This is a shout against a wall that will echo back and nothing else. This > must have been added by MrsSeetharaman FM, > > On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 at 1:39 PM, Rajaram Krishnamurthy < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Central government salaries and pensions are paid from the Consolidated >> Fund of India. This is the main government fund where all revenues, such as >> taxes and loans, are deposited. Expenditures from this fund, including >> salaries and pensions, require authorization from Parliament. >> >> Consolidated Fund of India: This is the primary fund for all government >> revenues and expenditures. It receives money from various sources, >> including income tax, customs, and loans. >> >> Parliamentary Authorization: Before any money can be withdrawn from the >> Consolidated Fund for salaries, pensions, or any other expenditure, it must >> be authorized by the Parliament. >> >> Pensions: Pensions, particularly those for judges of the Supreme Court >> and High Courts, are charged on the Consolidated Fund of India. This means >> their payment is a mandatory charge against this fund. >> >> >> >> The pension sanctioning authority for central government employees is the >> Head of the Office where the employee last served. This authority is >> responsible for processing the pension papers and issuing the Pension >> Payment Order (PPO) to the Central Pension Accounting Office (CPAO). >> >> Initial responsibility: The Head of Office in the Ministry, Department, >> or Office where the employee last worked is the primary pension sanctioning >> authority. >> >> Processing: The process begins well before retirement, with the Head of >> Office sending pension papers to the Accounts Officer at least six months >> prior to the retirement date. >> >> PPO issuance: The Accounts Officer processes the papers and issues the >> Pension Payment Order (PPO). >> >> CPAO role: The PPO is then sent to the Central Pension Accounting Office >> (CPAO) to authorize the payment of the pension through a disbursing bank. >> >> Provisional pension: In cases where the final pension cannot be assessed >> before retirement, the Head of Office is authorized to sanction provisional >> pension for a period of six months. >> >> >> >> The salaries and pensions paid by governments are categorized as >> "Revenue expenditure." Revenue expenditure refers to the expenses incurred >> by the government in its day-to-day operations and maintenance, such as >> salaries, pensions, administrative costs, and subsidies. >> >> >> >> The Consolidated Fund of India is the government's main account, >> established under Article 266 of the Constitution, where all its revenues >> (like taxes and loans) and expenditures are deposited and withdrawn from, >> respectively. Money can only be withdrawn from this fund with parliamentary >> approval, which is typically granted through an Appropriation Bill. It is >> used for all routine government expenses, such as salaries, infrastructure >> projects, and debt repayment. >> >> >> >> The Consolidated Fund of India is ultimately controlled by the >> Parliament of India, which authorizes all withdrawals from the fund. While >> the government manages the fund's day-to-day operations, no money can be >> withdrawn without parliamentary approval through measures like >> Appropriation Bills, ensuring accountability and fiscal discipline. >> >> Parliamentary control: Parliament must explicitly authorize any spending >> from the Consolidated Fund. This prevents any funds from being spent >> without proper authorization and provides a system of checks and balances. >> >> Government management: The government manages the daily operations of the >> fund, which collects all government revenues, such as income tax and >> customs duties, and from which all government expenses are paid. >> >> Legislative approval: Parliament's approval is obtained through >> Appropriation Bills, which specify the amounts and nature of expenditures >> allowed for withdrawal. >> >> Constitutional basis: The fund is established under Article 266(1) of the >> Indian Constitution, which also specifies that the fund's custody, >> payments, and withdrawals are regulated by laws made by Parliament. >> >> >> >> The Contingency Fund of India is a fund established under Article >> 267 of the Indian Constitution for meeting unforeseen expenditures, such as >> natural calamities, when Parliament is not in session. It is held by the >> Secretary to the Government of India in the Ministry of Finance on behalf >> of the President, and the fund's current limit was increased to ₹30,000 >> crore by Parliament in 2022. Withdrawals require parliamentary >> authorization afterward, and any money spent is later replenished from the >> Consolidated Fund of India. >> >> Key features of the Contingency Fund of India >> >> Purpose: To meet urgent and unforeseen expenditures, such as during >> natural disasters or other emergencies, when Parliament is not in session. >> >> Legal Basis: Established by the Contingency Fund of India Act, 1950, and >> provided for in Article 267 of the Constitution. >> >> Current Corpus: The fund has a limit of ₹30,000 crore, which was >> increased by Parliament in 2022. >> >> Custody: It is held by the Secretary to the Government of India in the >> Ministry of Finance, on behalf of the President. >> >> Withdrawal Process: >> >> An advance can be made out of the fund for unforeseen expenditure. >> >> This expenditure must be authorized later by Parliament through >> appropriations. >> >> >> >> "Funded" and "unfunded" describe how financial obligations are >> handled. A funded arrangement has money set aside in a separate fund for >> future payment, like a long-term loan or a retirement plan. An unfunded >> arrangement does not have a dedicated fund and relies on cash flow for >> immediate needs or later payment, such as short-term loans or liabilities >> due within a year. >> >> Funded >> >> Definition: An obligation where funds are specifically set aside to meet >> future payments. >> >> Examples: >> >> Long-term debt: Financial obligations with a maturity of more than one >> year. >> >> Funded employee benefit plans: A retirement or gratuity plan where a >> company sets aside money in a trust to meet future payments. >> >> Funded loan facilities: Bank loans like overdrafts or term loans for >> expansion. >> >> Characteristics: Generally considered more secure for investors and >> companies because the funds are already allocated. >> >> Unfunded >> >> Definition: An obligation that does not have a dedicated fund and is paid >> from general cash flow. >> >> Examples: >> >> Short-term debt: Financial obligations due within a year. >> >> Unfunded employee benefit plans: A plan where the company contributes >> money only when a payout is due, without setting aside a dedicated fund. >> >> Unfunded loan facilities: Non-funded credit facilities like letters of >> credit or bank guarantees. >> >> Characteristics: Represents a more immediate cash flow need for the >> company or government. >> >> >> >> What is the difference between funded and unfunded pensions? >> >> Typically, as mentioned earlier, the funding monies will be placed in a >> trust fund independent from the employer's other assets. This trust fund >> is, therefore, externally funded. In the case of unfunded schemes, any >> benefits are paid out of the assets of the employer at the time that the >> member retires. >> >> >> >> unfunded used to describe a financial arrangement that has >> been agreed but for which there is not enough money available: The unfunded >> liability for Social Security's old age and disability funds will be $3 >> trillion by 2070. >> >> >> >> Salary is funded; there is no commitment for such treatment >> wrt the pension hence unfunded as parliament has the power not to vote. >> >> K Rajaram IRS 71125 >> >> On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 at 11:41, Suryanarayana Ambadipudi < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Thank you 🙏 >>> >>> >>> *A.SURYANARAYANA* >>> *The less you speak,the more you are listened to* >>> >>> >>> On Thu, 6 Nov 2025 at 9:54 PM, Colinjivadi Mahadevan < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> If the pension paid to retirees/pensioners is unfunded cost, what >>>> about the salaries paid to serving employees both covered under >>>> OPS/NPS.The Old Pension Scheme is applicable only to employees recruited >>>> upto 31/12/2003. The beneficiaries under the OPS form a diminishing group >>>> which has no new entrant from 1/1/2004. At some point of time when the >>>> last pensioner exits from this world the Scheme will extinguish itself.But >>>> the wage revisions for serving employees in the Government is perpetual >>>> with ten year intervals between revisions.So such wages constitute >>>> unfunded cost on a perpetual basis. So ,if pension under OPS is to be >>>> considered as unfunded cost , so should the salaries of serving employees >>>> be considered as unfunded cost. >>>> C H Mahadevan >>>> >>> >>>> On Thu, 6 Nov 2025, 19:50 Suryanarayana Ambadipudi, < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> To >>>>> >>>>> The Hon’ble President of India >>>>> Rashtrapati Bhavan >>>>> New Delhi – 110004. >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Representation regarding deletion of the words “unfunded >>>>> pension scheme” and explicit inclusion of “existing pensioners” under the >>>>> Terms of Reference of the 8th Central Pay Commission >>>>> >>>>> Respected Rashtrapati Ji, >>>>> >>>>> With due respect and utmost humility, I submit this representation >>>>> seeking your kind attention to a matter of significant constitutional, >>>>> administrative, and ethical concern regarding the wording of the Terms of >>>>> Reference (ToR) of the 8th Central Pay Commission (CPC) notified vide >>>>> Gazette Notification dated 3rd November 2025. >>>>> >>>>> 1. The Clause in Question >>>>> >>>>> Para (e)(ii) of the ToR reads as follows: >>>>> “While making recommendations, the Commission shall take into account, >>>>> inter alia, the likely impact on the finances of the Government of India, >>>>> the State Governments, and the unfunded cost of non-contributory pension >>>>> schemes of the Central Government, autonomous bodies, and other entities >>>>> covered under the Commission.” >>>>> This clause, while indirectly referring to the Old Pension Scheme >>>>> (OPS), neither explicitly mentions “pensioners” nor acknowledges their >>>>> rights and interests under the Commission’s purview. >>>>> >>>>> 2. The Core Concern >>>>> >>>>> The specific use of the phrase “unfunded cost of non-contributory >>>>> pension schemes” is deeply objectionable and discriminatory in tone and >>>>> intent, as: >>>>> • It equates constitutionally and judicially protected pension >>>>> entitlements with fiscal liabilities. >>>>> • It reduces pensioners—who served the nation under the sovereign >>>>> guarantee of post-retirement security—to mere “financial burdens”. >>>>> • It departs from the humane and welfare-oriented language used in all >>>>> previous Pay Commissions (from the 4th to the 7th CPC), where “pensioners” >>>>> were expressly mentioned as beneficiaries of review and revision. >>>>> Moreover, no such terminology (“unfunded scheme”) has ever been used >>>>> in reference to pensions of Members of Parliament, Members of Legislative >>>>> Assemblies, Judges of the Supreme Court or High Courts, or other >>>>> constitutional functionaries—though their pensions are equally >>>>> non-contributory and drawn from Consolidated Funds. >>>>> This selective and stigmatizing phrasing therefore violates the >>>>> principle of equality before law under Article 14 of the Constitution. >>>>> >>>>> 3. Legal and Constitutional Position >>>>> The Supreme Court of India has repeatedly affirmed that: >>>>> 1. In Deokinandan Prasad v. State of Bihar (1971) – Pension is a >>>>> property right and cannot be withdrawn except by authority of law. >>>>> 2. In D.S. Nakara v. Union of India (1983) – Pension is a deferred >>>>> wage, a continuation of service benefits, and not a bounty. Pensioners >>>>> form >>>>> a homogeneous class and must be treated equally in matters of revision and >>>>> improvement. >>>>> >>>>> Therefore, to classify the Old Pension Scheme as an unfunded cost >>>>> contradicts the judicially settled understanding that pension is an earned >>>>> right arising from past service to the State. >>>>> >>>>> 4. Administrative and Moral Considerations >>>>> >>>>> The Government of India, as a model employer, has a moral and legal >>>>> obligation to uphold the dignity and welfare of its retired employees. The >>>>> deliberate omission of the word “pensioners” from the ToR and its >>>>> substitution with a fiscal descriptor is inconsistent with this >>>>> obligation. >>>>> >>>>> This shift in tone: >>>>> • Dehumanises pensioners by turning a lifelong entitlement into a >>>>> budgetary liability; >>>>> • Creates unnecessary fear and insecurity among elderly pensioners; and >>>>> • Erodes public confidence in the government’s commitment to fair and >>>>> humane treatment of its retirees. >>>>> >>>>> 5. Request for Rectification >>>>> >>>>> In light of the above facts, legal precedents, and moral principles, >>>>> it is humbly requested that: >>>>> 1. The phrase “unfunded cost of non-contributory pension schemes” in >>>>> Para (e)(ii) of the 8th CPC ToR be deleted; and >>>>> 2. The words “and existing pensioners under the Central Government, >>>>> autonomous bodies and other entities covered under the Commission” be >>>>> inserted explicitly, to bring clarity and restore parity with earlier >>>>> Commissions. >>>>> >>>>> A suggested revised version of the clause is as follows: >>>>> >>>>> “(ii) the likely impact on the finances of the Government of India, >>>>> the State Governments, and the pensionary liabilities relating to existing >>>>> pensioners and family pensioners under the Central Government, autonomous >>>>> bodies, and other entities covered under the Commission.” >>>>> >>>>> This would reaffirm the rightful inclusion of all existing pensioners >>>>> within the ambit of the 8th CPC, in keeping with constitutional equity, >>>>> judicial mandates, and past administrative practice. >>>>> >>>>> 6. Appeal for Presidential Intervention >>>>> >>>>> As the Constitutional Head of the Republic and Guardian of the rights >>>>> of all citizens, including retired public servants, I earnestly appeal to >>>>> Your Excellency to kindly direct the Ministry of Finance to review and >>>>> amend the ToR of the 8th CPC accordingly. >>>>> >>>>> Such an intervention would uphold: >>>>> • The constitutional sanctity of equality and fairness, >>>>> • The dignity of service rendered by lakhs of government pensioners, >>>>> and >>>>> • The moral authority of the State as a model employer. >>>>> >>>>> With Highest Respect and Gratitude, >>>>> >>>>> Yours faithfully, >>>>> (Lokanath Mishra) >>>>> The Chief Adviser, The All India Pensioners Association of CBIC: >>>>> [Contact No. 9437314941] >>>>> [Email [email protected]] >>>>> Date: 05.11.2025 >>>>> Place: Puri. >>>>> Copy for information and necessary action to: >>>>> 1. Hon’ble Prime Minister of India. >>>>> 2. Hon’ble Finance Minister of India. >>>>> 3. The Secretary, DOPT, Government of India. >>>>> 4. The Secretary, Expenditure, Government of India. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *A.SURYANARAYANA* >>>>> *The less you speak,the more you are listened to* >>>>> >>>> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZopnqQjbzPgXEKi1PTsc2DRNuT0mwEVp-gP%2BhZur5FyuSQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAL5XZopnqQjbzPgXEKi1PTsc2DRNuT0mwEVp-gP%2BhZur5FyuSQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust > > We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join > > Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup > > Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust > > Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: > https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KeralaIyers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CADLnUxhit%2BViyTK5zkoS1Sk1ULbD9_QD7rh65YYikwjQKf0j5w%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CADLnUxhit%2BViyTK5zkoS1Sk1ULbD9_QD7rh65YYikwjQKf0j5w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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