Rajaram Sir, Your extra elaboration and scholarship from BG makes me confused.Please grant us simple explanation which average persons like me can understand.Please reduce the size of your responses and make them manageable for understanding. YMS
On Sat, Sep 27, 2025 at 8:56 AM Rajaram Krishnamurthy <[email protected]> wrote: > There can be no profit or loss. What is called profit in reality is taking > continuously from nature without giving any compensating contribution to > nature. What is called profit is actually the harm inflicted on nature. > Wounding nature is economic life today? > > > > Is that so simple? What is life here where there are no profit > or loss? Prakriti exists. You also exist. You exist without any desire or > action. Then all the 8 billion populations are yogis. As Yogi each will > attain the Moksha and there will not be any rebirths at all. All the > universe shall alone exist. However, they are subject to natural reactions. > Trees would fall and leaves and flowers scattered. There is no profit nor > loss. If so there is no action at all is the justice. Hence Prakriti the > MAYA, out of the PURUSHA had to create the gains and desires in order to > exploit the human three gunas to come out. NATURE WILL BE DESTROYED SOME > HOW EVEN WITHOUT THE PROFIT SO DESTRUCTION FOR PROFIT IS FOR THE RECYCLING > OF THE GROWTH. And in B G Lord explained thus: > > Chapter 3—Verses 4-5\ > > Bg. 3.4 > > न कर्मणामनारम्भान्नैष्कर्म्य पुरुषोऽश्नुते । > > न च सन्न्यसनादेव सिद्धिं समधिगच्छति ॥ ४ ॥ > > na karmaṇām anārambhān > > naiṣkarmyaṁ puruṣo ’śnute > > na ca sannyasanād eva > > siddhiṁ samadhigacchati > > *Not by merely abstaining from work can one achieve freedom from reaction, > nor by renunciation alone can one attain perfection.** Indirectly it is > told that profit and loss is part of life ,materially or mindfully.* > > Bg. 3.5 > > न हि कश्चित्क्षणमपि जातु तिष्ठत्यकर्मकृत् । > > कार्यते ह्यवशः कर्म सर्वः प्रकृतिजैर्गुणैः ॥ ५ ॥ > > na hi kaścit kṣaṇam api > > jātu tiṣṭhaty akarma-kṛt > > kāryate hy avaśaḥ karma > > sarvaḥ prakṛti-jair guṇaiḥ > > *Everyone is forced to act helplessly according to the qualities he has > acquired from the modes of material nature; therefore no one can refrain > from doing something, not even for a moment.** Thus, has to endure the > profit or loss of life. * > > Bg. 7.4 > > भूमिरापोऽनलो वायु: खं मनो बुद्धिरेव च । > > अहङ्कार इतीयं मे भिन्ना प्रकृतिरष्टधा ॥ ४ ॥ > > bhūmir āpo ’nalo vāyuḥ > > khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca > > ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me > > bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā > > Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego – all > together these eight constitute My separated material energies. > > Bg. 7.5 > > अपरेयमितस्त्वन्यां प्रकृतिं विद्धि मे पराम् । > > जीवभूतां महाबाहो ययेदं धार्यते जगत् ॥ ५ ॥ > > apareyam itas tv anyāṁ > > prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām > > jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho > > yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat > > Besides these, O mighty-armed Arjuna, there is another, superior energy of > Mine, which comprises the living entities who are exploiting the resources > of this material, inferior nature. [PRAKRITI AS MAYA AND REAL DISTINGUISHED > AS TWO SIDES] > > Two verses, 7.4 and 7.5, where we are told that there are > two Prakritis, where Sri Krishna says that He has two natures, not one > nature but two natures. This itself is a surprising statement. Normally we > think that everyone has one nature, but He says that, “I have got two > natures”. And one nature is the lower nature, and the other is the higher > nature. And the lower nature, He has described as consisting of eight > elements: the five pañca mahā bhūtā(s); that is starting from ether, to > air, to fire, to water, and to the earth. These are the five mahā bhūtā(s), > and then mind, intellect, and egoism: these eight elements constitute the > lower nature. Now, there is higher nature, which is not described in full, > but which will come later on; but here, Sri Krishna gives only two > indications of what is the nature of this higher nature: first is > jīvabhūtām; the one that has become the jīva; the higher nature which has > become the jīva; yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat, and by which the world is upheld. > That would mean: the principle of unity; to uphold the whole world is to > uphold the oneness or unity of the world. You cannot uphold anything > without unifying principles. So, one aspect of this nature, higher nature > is: its power of unity. The other one is that it is that which has the > stuff in the jīva. > > Let us therefore now concentrate upon these two verses. The problem > of bondage and liberation is supposed to be the most important problem in > Indian thought. No civilization, no culture in the world has been so > concerned with the problem of bondage, and how can one be free from the > bondage. There is only one system, which does not deal with it and that is > cārvāka. Charvaka theory is materialistic theory, and does not deal with > the problem of bondage and liberation; because it says that as long as you > live, live happily, and after the body is burnt away at the cremation, what > remains? There is nothing to remain and therefore you don’t need to worry > about it at all. Apart from this philosophy all the other systems of Indian > philosophies regard the problem of bondage and liberation to be the most > important problem. Buddhism, Jainism, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Sankhya, Yoga, > Purva Mimamsa, Uttara Mimamsa, and Uttara Mimamsa are called Vedanta, and > all the systems of Vedanta consider this to be the most important problem. > > To state the problem very simply, it can be said that there are > two facts which are indubitable, which cannot be doubted. The fact is that > every human being feels situated in a circumstance. To be in a > circumstance is an indubitable fact: nobody can deny that you are in a > circumstance. And everyone is required to deal with a circumstance: you > are either comfortable with a circumstance, [profit] or you are > uncomfortable with a circumstance. [loss] Even when you are comfortable > with a circumstance, you would wish that the same circumstance continues. > And because there is a fear that it may not continue, you make an effort to > see that the same circumstance continues. If the circumstance is > uncomfortable you try to see that it is removed: you either fight with it, > and change the circumstance, or you try to escape from it, to come out of > it; either of the two things happens while dealing with the uncomfortable > circumstance. Now, both the conditions are conditions of bondage. The > fact is that you are required to deal with a circumstance, this “required” > is a very important word; you are “required” to deal with a circumstance is > an obligation; and obligation is a sign of compulsion; compulsion is a sign > of bondage, you are bond to do it, you are obliged to do it. Indian thought > therefore assumes that there are two elements: the one, which is > subjective, is called Purusha, and the circumstance is called Prakriti. > These are the two elements, which are supposed to be confronting each > other, or wedded together happily or unhappily, and something has to be > done in regard to these two elements. > > Now, the concept of bondage goes farther. It is not merely a > question of one confronting the other, but one finding oneself ‘in’ the > other. It is a further problem. It is as if one is found to be locked up > in a prison. Confronting is one thing, it is also a kind of a prison, but > a greater confinement arises because we feel as if we are locked up in the > Prakriti. Without raising deeper questions we only look at the psychology > of this “locked up” condition. In what way are we “locked up” in Prakriti? > To be locked up means that there must be a hook on which we are fixed. What > is the hook in Prakriti on which we are hanged? And we find ourselves so > tied up that we cannot come out of it. The answer is that this Prakriti has > three elements, by which the Purusha gets locked up: manaḥ, buddhiḥ, > ahaṁkāraḥ. These are three words, which Sri Krishna speaks of in the 4th > verse of the 7th chapter. These are three hooks as it were: the mind, the > intellect and the ahaṁbhāva. These three elements are themselves > conscious, but not sufficiently conscious. Our mind is conscious, but not > fully conscious; our intellect is conscious, but not fully conscious; our > ahaṁkāra is conscious, but not fully conscious. Purusha on the other hand > by its nature is conscious and fully conscious. Now, this fully conscious > Purusha gets locked into three elements, which are not fully conscious, as > a result of which one feels as to, the capacity to come out of it, is > adequate or not. > > There is no synchronization. The problem is: how to arrive at the > synchronization, so that you shift from here to there; and mokṣa consists > in getting released from these three inadequate hooks in the Apara > Prakriti, lifting it up and entering into Para Prakriti. If Jiva is fully > conscious, if Para Prakriti is fully conscious, how did it happen that this > fully conscious being got caught at all into the prison of Apara Prakriti? > What is the connection between Para Prakriti and Apara Prakriti? What is > the connection of Jiva with the elements of Apara Prakriti in which it gets > hooked up? Once you know this, we also know the remedy: the cause, once we > find out what is the cause of the bondage, we also have the means of…remedy > of that cause. > > In the Veda and the Upanishads, there is a very important term, > which is called tapas: tapas are a process of fixing with concentration > upon any object. [ATHEIST MAY TREAT IT AS CONCENTRATION WHILE THE OTHER > TREAT IT AS A RELIGIOIUS PRACTICE] We speak of tapasya and tapascaryā, and > this is regarded as a process by which we can uplift ourselves from the > lower to the higher The answer is: it is by ‘exclusive concentration of > consciousness’. This is the process by which the Jiva gets hooked to these > three elements, which are of our lower nature. Once we know the cause, you > reverse it. Because you are exclusively concentrated upon manas, buddhi, > and ahaṁkāra, you withdraw from it by an opposite process. Instead of > concentrating upon these three elements, you begin to concentrate upon Para > Prakriti, upon unifying consciousness. The answer is: that among these > three elements manas, buddhi, and ahaṁkāra, the one element, which can help > you most, is buddhi, because buddhi is the power of discrimination. It > discriminates one from the other; it will discriminate between Apara and > Para. So, you cultivate the buddhi. This can be cured if you can make it > Sattwic; it is not very difficult to make Rajas into Sattwa, although it is > difficult for Tamas, Rajas and Sattwa to be transformed into Para Prakriti, > but to transform Rajas into Sattwa is much more easy. Therefore, the first > prescription of the Bhagavad-Gita is…and on this, we shall see later on in > the last 6 chapters, where the whole teaching is given as to what is Tamas, > what is Rajas and what is Sattwa. You lift the Buddhi from its Tamasic and > Rajasic activities, and make it accustomed to the activities of Sattwa. In > the lower, there are two great difficulties, where Sattwa is less dominant, > and Rajas and Tamas are more predominant: this is ahaṁbhāva, and manas; > manas and ahaṁbhāva are much more entangled into Tamas and Rajas; ahaṁbhāva > is either Tamasic, lethargic, or highly Rajasic in which self-will is > predominant; manas is cañcalam, it is extremely vivacious, extremely > unstable. > > Now, if you read the whole of the Bhagavad Gita, you will see these > elements constantly emphasised: first we are told, “it is by attachment > that we get hooked”, and by attachment we mean: ‘exclusive concentration of > consciousness’. Secondly we are told that, you should get over the Tamas > and Rajas and enter into Sattwa, and that you should use intellect (or > Buddhi), as your instrument for doing it; and you are told that there are > two elements, which are very powerfully attached to Rajas and Tamas, and > that is cañcalam manaḥ, the vivacious restless mind, and ahaṁbhāva, which > either Tamasic, or Rajasic predominantly. Free the ahaṁbhāva from the Tamas > and Rajas; make the mind as stable as possible. It is by this means that > the ahaṁbhāva will be greatly weakened. Now, these are the special methods, > which are remedies, which are given, by which the Jiva, the Purusha’s > status of which has become hooked to these three elements; gradually, it > will be lifted out. > > Hence profit and loss do not affect the nature at all; but > only the self; nature can take care; it does mean that where the ahankara > is removed, one helps the nature. And till such time and always in the > cycle of births and deaths profit and loss shall co-exist. > > K Rajaram IRS 27925 > -- *Mar* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CACDCHCJeQiuAARey0xWZ4k%3D8posXKuFCgBVtk03Kb8sUYj8_Bw%40mail.gmail.com.
