Z Some ignorant people in many areas of India started taking agni-pariksha of their wives in order to check their chastity or give up their wives if they become doubtful about their character. Even bollywood started producing movies on this theme. But this is not only utter ignorance, non-sense but it is also a crime. If they have learnt this, then, it is not the fault of Lord Rama or Sita or Valmiki. It is the fault of those leaders and teachers of their society who have failed to teach Ramayana in a proper way. It is also the fault of the common people who learn Ramayana not from the authentic Gurus, but rather anti-Bharat leftist indologits, partially knowledgeable dharma-flag-bearers, money-minded professional reciters, TV-serials (especially in modern times) which despite all the sincere efforts of the producers, directors, tend to go off-track albeit unintentionally. Even if someone watches TV-serial for the entertainment purpose, one should confirm whatever he has learnt from TV-serials with authentic Gurus.
AA What message did Rama want to give by killing Shambhuka ? Sociological point of view. Situation of the society in Rama-rajya: It is mentioned in Valmiki Ramayana, Yuddha kand, chapter 128, verse 104, (Gitapress) ब्राह्मणाः क्षत्रियाः वैश्याः शूद्रा लोभविवर्जिताः: | स्वकर्मसु प्रवर्तन्ते तुष्टाः स्वैरेव कर्मभिः || Brahmanas, Ksatriyas, Vaishyas, Shudras were devoid of greed . All were satisfied by performance of their Varna ashrama related activities only and used to follow that only. Not only in regards to the Rama-rajya, but in regards to any ideal kingdom that is mentioned in the Vedic literature, it is mentioned that in earlier ages, before the advent of Kaliyuga (which is currently going on), in an ideal kingdom, every citizen used to follow the rules prescribed according to his own varna and ashrama. AB Basis of Varnas: As far as the designation of varnas, it is said that varna is decided on the basis of qualities and activities (Guna and karmas) and not birth. Lord Krishna also says in the Bhagavad Gita 4.13 -Chaturvarnya maya srshtam guna karma vibhagashah The four varnas were created by me according to the divisions of Gunas (modes of sattva, rajas and tamas) and karma (activities). Varna is not decided on the basis of the birth certificate in the original vedic society. What is the varna of a newborn child??: The nature (svabhava) of different varnas is also different. Who is a shudra and who is a brahmana, Ksatriya, vaishya — is a very broad subject matter which is beyond the scope of this article, I am mentioning it only in brief. It is mentioned in the atri smriti - Janmana jayate shudrah, sanskarat bhavet dvijah: By birth, everyone is a shudra. It is by the samskaras, one becomes a dvija (twice born — brahmana, Ksatriya or vaishya) There are minimum 16 samskaras that are mentioned in Vedic literature. The first one of which is the Garbhadhana samskara — which is when the prospective mother and father unite to give birth to a child. When the proper samskaras are held, there is an extremely high probability that the qualities of father and mother get transferred in a child. In earlier yugas, only brahmanas, Ksatriyas and vaishyas used to perform the garbhadhana and other samskaras, and therefore, there was very high probability that the son a dvija will get the qualities of a dvija. Although when the time of admission in Gurukul would come (upanayana samskara), still the quality of the child would be verified before any designation as brahmana, Ksatriya, vaishya or shudra is given. And even after the designation is given at the time of admission, whichever the quality of the student is identified by the qualified Guru during the studies, that varna will be designated to that person). AC Those who are born without samskaras, they are designated as Shudras by default. That’s why it is said — Janmana jayate shudrah. Also, all varnas had certain predetermined options to choose professions or karmas according to their nature. For example, according to the Bhagavad Gita 18th chapter, Nature and prescribed duties of various Varnas: Nature and karma of Brahmanas — Bhagavad Gita 18.42 çamo damas tapaù çaucaà kñäntir ärjavam eva ca jïänaà vijïänam ästikyaà brahma-karma svabhäva-jam Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness — these are the natural qualities by which the brähmaëas work. Nature and Karma of Ksatriyas — Bhagavad Gita 18.43 çauryaà tejo dhåtir däkñyaà yuddhe cäpy apaläyanam dänam éçvara-bhävaç ca kñätraà karma svabhäva-jam Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the kñatriyas. Nature and Karma of Ksatriyas — Bhagavad Gita 18.43 kåñi-go-rakñya-väëijyaà vaiçya-karma svabhäva-jam paricaryätmakaà karma çüdrasyäpi svabhäva-jam Farming, cow protection and business are the natural work for the vaiçyas, and for the çüdras there is labor and service to others. So, the natural quality of work of sudras is labor and service to other three classes. And this is in no way derogatory to the least as many people with poor fund of knowledge think. Varnas are analogous to professional designations in modern times: In essence, the varna can be compared in modern days — with profession. AD In an ideal organization, people stick to their professional responsibilities. And if they don’t stick to their responsibilities, and imitate another person’s responsibilities, then they get removed from the organization. For example, if a security-guard in a company rather than performing his duties as security guard starts imitating managing-director artificially without getting the necessary qualifications, certifications, appointment letter, etc. of a managing-director just by seeing how much reputation the managing director has, then, that security guard won’t be appointed as managing director. Rather, he will be removed from the company. On the contrary, he will get much more respect if he plays his role as a security guard nicely. If he has the talent, capacity, qualification, credentials to become a managing director, then, he will have to prove it, and if he is able to prove those to Chairman of the company, then, he might be appointed as managing director also. But not by artificial imitation. In the similar manner, if a person who is designation as a Shudra in a strictly Varna-ashrama community starts imitating Brahminical or Ksatriya ways rather than his own duties, he will be removed from the kingdom. Not that just because someone is imitating a brahminical activity from that moment he is designated as Brahmana. . It has nothing to do with race. It is to do with only the qualification. Suppose, being inspired by the respect that soldiers get, if I become fired up and go to the India Pakistan border (LOC), what will the Indian army do to me?? Will they give me AK 47 rifles and bullet proof jacket immediately and tell me to fight or will they tell me to go and fulfill all the criteria for getting recruited as a soldier?? If they immediately allow me, then, I will be doing more harm to Indian army’s work rather than helping. Similarly, during Treta Yuga when Lord Rama was ruling, people used to follow their respective duties happily, and were satisfied with it. The shudra who was performing his ‘meditation’, was actually trying to imitate Brahminical, Ksatriya principles rather than gaining the desired qualification to be able to practice tapasya. Situation of the society in Satya, Treta and Dvapara Yuga: If we see the evidence quoted from Padma purana in this regard, and also in the Valimiki Ramayana Uttarakand, it is mentioned in this connection that in the earlier age of Satya yuga, only Brahmanas used to exist predominantly and therefore only Brahmanas had the right to perform the austerity (tapasya and meditation). In the Treta Yuga, when the consciousness of the people in general became somewhat more degraded, Brahmanas and Ksatriyas were allowed to do meditation. In the dvapara yuga, Brahmanas , Ksatriyas and Vaishyas were allowed to do meditation. This these ages, the Samskaras were strictly followed by the Brahmanas, Ksatriyas and Vaishyas. Situation of the society in Kali yuga (present age) In this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, the performance of samskaras is practically extremely less, and therefore, it is said that by birth, everyone is a born shudra. Hence in this age of Kali, practically, everyone is allowed to do the tapasya, including the Shudras. So-called Brahmanas, Ksatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras , everyone can do the tapasya, because everyone is practically on the same level. Is it that Shudras are inferior people and should not be allowed to participate in spiritual activities?? NO. In Kaliyuga no one is barred from practicing the austerity. Every one can practice austerity, tapasya, devotional and spiritual life. In this Kali yuga, to consider that shudras are not allowed to do tapasya, whereas brahmanas, ksatriyas and vaishyas are allowed is totally wrong, because even the so-called brahmanas, Ksatriyas, Vaishyas are on the same level as so-called shudras because they are no samskaras. And even if people claim to say that — we do have samskaras, then, it must be clearly demonstrable in the behavior of the person. So, in the Kaliyuga, everyone has got the right to practice the spiritual life regardless of which caste or creed or race the person is born. The same thing is mentioned in the example quoted in the Padma purana in the context of killing of shambhuka. AE Another question: That Uttar kand has been added later — is confirmed by many great scholars, Hindu social reformers, indologists, even religious Gurus. How dare you oppose them?? How dare you question their commitment to Hindu cause?? Are you more advanced than them??? In reply to this, I can only say that I am a fool number one. I don’t know anything. These may be great personalities according to ‘modern’ understanding. But, I try to match the teachings of the so-called modern greats with the teachings of the predecessor acharyas like Sripad Madhvacharya, Sripad Ramanujacharya, Sri Nimbarkacharya, Sri Vishnu Swami, Sri Sridhar Swami, Sripad Adi-Shankaracharya, Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, Goswami Tulasidas, Sri Tukaram, Sri Surdas, Srimati Mira bai, Sri Rupa Goswami, Sri Sanatana Goswami, Sri Jiva Goswami, Sri Ramanandacharya, Sri Raskhan, etc. I respect all the acharyas, but if I will have to choose the opinion of one of the following: 1. Srimad Ananda Tirtha Bhagavatpadacharya (Sripad Madhvacharya, who is celebrated as great founder of Madhva sampradaya, propounder of Dvaita philosophy and devotion to Vishnu/Krishna in 12th century) and 2. Or any of the modern greats after 1800s. I will choose the first option. It is mentioned in a verse spoken by Yudhishthir Maharaj in the Mahäbhärata, Vana-pärva (313.117) tarko ‘pratiñöhaù çrutayo vibhinnä näsäv åñir yasya mataà na bhinnam dharmasya tattvaà nihitaà guhäyäà mahäjano yena gataù sa panthäù ”’Dry arguments are inconclusive. A great personality whose opinion does not differ from others is not considered a great sage. Simply by studying the Vedas, which are variegated, one cannot come to the right path by which dharmic principles are understood. The solid truth of dharmic principles is hidden in the heart of an unadulterated, self-realized person. Consequently, as the çästras confirm, one should accept whatever progressive path the mahäjanas advocate.’” I choose to follow on the path of Mahajanas who strictly adhere to the ideals of Sanatana dharma like Sripada Madhvacharya etc. and I choose to follow those who are adherents of these stalwart acharyas. Everyone has to choose his/her own role models. Based on which role models we choose, we will lead our lives, and accordingly we will attain peace, happiness, satisfaction, success, self-realization. Yudhishthir Maharaj answering Yaksha Prashna Summary: To summarize the entire discussion: · What is the actual predicament?? o how to reconcile the seeming contradictions? · Is Uttara kand in Valmiki Ramayana authentic, composed by Valmiki ?? o Yes, because Valmiki Ramayana itself says so. · Did Rama actually banished Sita in her pregnancy? o Yes, because Valmiki Ramayana and other Vedic literatures tell us. · Did Rama actually killed Shambhuk? o Yes, because Valmiki Ramayana and other Vedic literatures tell us. · How many references to Rama sending Sita to forest in her pregnancy: o 10 · How many references to Rama killing Shambhuka: o 5 · Isn’t it easier way out if we simply reject those portions of Vedic literature which we don’t find acceptable according to current day moral standards?? o No. because it will be Ardha-Kukkuta Nyana ( A half-hen logic): o It will make all Vedic literatures untrustworthy and no one should trust an untrustworthy entity · Are you suggesting that Rama was right in sending Sita to forest in pregnancy? And in that way, do you mean to suggest that Rama was insensitive towards women, he was misogynist, patriarch and so on and it is desirable for a common man to be like that in a civilized, developed, modern society? o No. · Are you suggesting that Rama was right in killing the shudra just because he was performing meditation? And do you mean to suggest that Shudras should not have right to meditation? Do you mean to suggest that it is ok to be racist??? Because Rama is Maryada purushottama — best human among the dignified, the civilized, the modest. Whatever he does, the common person should follow. o NO. · What message did Rama want to give to the world by sending Sita into forest? o Rama loved Sita o But sometimes lower principles have to be compromised for the sake of higher principles, ideal leader should be ready to do that. It doesn’t always matter who is at fault. · How does an ideal king along with his queen relate to citizens in the kingdom?? o As father-mother and children · Transformation by Personal sacrifice VS Transformation by punishment. o Transformation by inspiration and personal sacrifice is greater. · What would be the impact had Rama punished the washerman and the related people? o They would consider him as a ruthless dictator. It would have created an environment of fear. · What people thought when Rama gave up Sita? Performed Asvamedha Yajnas not with original Sita but deities of Sita on his side and when Sita entered in to the earth??? o Their respect and love for both Sita and Rama increased many times, · Was the reason for Rama giving up Sita — democracy??? o Might not be. AG · Ideal Leadership: · Does it mean that — husbands/wives should give up their spouses or banish them if they have even the slightest of doubt on their wife or husbands? o NO · What message did Rama want to give by killing Shambhuka? Sociological point of view. o Not imitating others’ dharma. · Situation of the society in Rama-rajya: o Strictly Varna-ashrama based. Happy people. · Basis of Varnas — Birth or Guna and Karma: ?? o Guna and Karma. Not birth. · What is the varna of a newborn child?? If without garbhadhana samskara?? o Shudra · Nature and prescribed duties of various Varnas: · Varnas are analogous to professional designations in modern times: · Situation of the society in Satya, Treta and Dvapara Yuga: o Strictly Varnashrama · Situation of the society in Kali yuga (present age) o All are as good as shudras of previous ages. · Is it that Shudras are inferior people and should not be allowed to participate in spiritual activities and tapasya and austerities.?? o NO. It is not valid. Especially in Kali-yuga. In Kaliyuga, all varnas are allowed to practice tapasya, which was not the case in previous yugas. · That Uttar kand has been added later — is confirmed by many great scholars, Hindu social reformers, indologists, even religious Gurus. How dare you oppose them?? How dare you question their commitment to Hindu cause?? Are you more advanced than them??? o No, I am not more advanced. But I choose to follow those who are more advanced, more devoted, have better logics and reasonings. K RAJARAM IRS PART 3 18924 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/thatha_patty/CAL5XZoo1A-a6b%3DFjyN3i-OXLbWQnr74gX2M2WAyFSY3qMuvZmA%40mail.gmail.com.
