The situation is very different on an iPad. I don't think this argument is a good enough reason either. It will differ based on locale, accessibility technology, device, personal key shortcuts, etc.
l8r Sean Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:52 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution > <[email protected]> wrote: > > You're going to be holding shift for the parens anyways so it might be easier > to type instead of not pressing and then pressing shift > > Brandon > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:47 PM, Andrey Fidrya <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I think that introducing another escape character is not a good idea. >> \() is consistent with \r \n etc. >> >> And I'm not sure if $ is easier to type. '\' is a single keypress and is >> located >> near Backspace & Enter. >> >> $ is SHIFT+4 and is harder to type without looking at the keyboard. >> >> Andrey >> >> >>> On 22 Jun 2016, at 02:25, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> How can it be unpersuasive? I can *show* you that keys that are easier to >>> type/reach exist for a large majority of user’s. >>> >>> I am not saying it is a good idea or not to replace \, but to pretend that >>> there isn’t an inconvenience there is unfair when every other part of the >>> language is put under a magnifying glass for the sake of grammar, newbie >>> friendliness, or this or that, etc... >>> >>> This is measurable…it just depends on whether it bothers people or not >>> enough. Most other things are based on opinion, but this *can* be based on >>> numbers and usability. >>> This is something used by everyone. The usability cost is there and it is >>> real. Just because “well it is easy for me to type” does not mean that it >>> is ideal. It also doesn’t mean that the current choice is the wrong choice >>> either. But it still is important to discuss while we can. >>> >>> And yes a keyboard IS only so big, but the range to that bigness can be >>> pretty… big. >>> >>> Also, $ is not the only option. There are still far easier keys to type >>> than \. >>> >>> Brandon >>> >>>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 7:15 PM, Xiaodi Wu <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 6:08 PM, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Actually… we can go pretty scientific on this sort of thing and heat map >>>>> keyboard usage to get a better picture of how “usable” this is. >>>>> >>>>> I pasted a file that contains seven \’s in it and heat mapped it at >>>>> https://www.patrick-wied.at/projects/heatmap-keyboard/ >>>>> >>>>> Even *with* several \’s throughout my source file the majority of my key >>>>> presses take place much closer to the $ key than the \ key. >>>>> >>>>> I think we can all argue about what is clearer or not, but I think for >>>>> the majority of us, the \ key is quite inconvenient compared to the keys >>>>> around where we type the most. >>>>> >>>>> I also ran several of iOS 10’s sample code through the heat map and >>>>> continue to get pretty similar results: the \ is much further from the >>>>> hottest part of the keyboard than the ones closer to where your hand >>>>> usually rests. >>>>> >>>>> Maybe this is flawed, but I think it is hard to argue that the \ is easy >>>>> to type when there are far more usable alternatives. >>>> >>>> I'm rather unpersuaded by this line of argument. The keyboard is only so >>>> big; it's a stretch to say that any key is less than absolutely usable. >>>> Moreover, \ is next the delete key, which I presume you use frequently and >>>> find no difficulty in reaching. >>>> >>>> You know what *is* unusable though? Try finding the $ key on an >>>> international keyboard. >>>> >>>>> Brandon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 21, 2016, at 6:10 PM, Daniel Resnick via swift-evolution >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I also disagree for the same reasons that Gwynne and Brent mentioned: I >>>>>> find '\(...)' easy to read, fine to type, and consistent with other >>>>>> string escaping syntax. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Brent Royal-Gordon via swift-evolution >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > I find that typing \(var) is very disruptive to my typing flow. The >>>>>>> > more I code in Swift, the more I like it, but every time I'm coding >>>>>>> > and then have to hiccup while typing \ then ( causes me to be >>>>>>> > annoyed. I know, it's minor, but it isn't a key combination that >>>>>>> > flows quickly. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > I would much rather have $() or perhaps ${} (like Groovy lang) or >>>>>>> > perhaps @() to go along with other uses of @ throughout the language. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Even though I'm used to Perl's and Ruby's interpolation syntaxes, I >>>>>>> immediately liked `\(…)`. It's parsimonious: Rather than taking a third >>>>>>> character (besides \ and ") to mean something special in a string >>>>>>> literal, it reuses one of the existing ones. There's no need to escape >>>>>>> a character you wouldn't otherwise have to touch, or to think of >>>>>>> another character as "magical" in a string. It fits nicely with the >>>>>>> rest of the syntax, with `\` indicating a special construct and then >>>>>>> `()` delimiting an expression, just as they do elsewhere in the >>>>>>> language. It's an elegant solution to a problem traditionally solved >>>>>>> inelegantly. It's very Swifty in that way. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > A shifted key, like $ or @, followed by another shifted key like (, >>>>>>> > allows for a much faster flow and they are much closer to the home >>>>>>> > keys than \ which is nearly as far from home keys as possible (and >>>>>>> > awkward). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't have any trouble typing it personally. If you find yourself >>>>>>> accidentally typing `\9` or `|(`, we could probably offer an error for >>>>>>> the former or warning for the latter with a fix-it. But if you're >>>>>>> complaining that it takes a tiny fraction of a second longer to type >>>>>>> than `$(` would, then honestly, I just can't bring myself to care. >>>>>>> Swift optimizes for code reading. If we wanted to optimize for code >>>>>>> typing instead, we'd have a very different style. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Brent Royal-Gordon >>>>>>> Architechies >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> swift-evolution mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >> > _______________________________________________ > swift-evolution mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
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