I'am not either for removing nil nor renaming it none, I think that they are conceptually different things. This syntactic sugar brings unfortunately many things around. One fastidious thing is it multiple semantics: As null pointer. As none value. I am personally not favorable for multiples semantics keywords.
Aside, if it come up to revisiting nil concept we should bring the other chimera (unit, Void, bottom type etc). -- J. Charles > Le 8 juin 2016 à 04:18, Muse M via swift-evolution > <[email protected]> a écrit : > > None would be similar to Null or nothing about the types in that sense which > None is not a type. > Nil would be interpret as Int, Float, String, etc > > > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 9:17 AM, Dany St-Amant via swift-evolution >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> No clue as to the origins, but if you insist on using none. you can do: >> >> let a : Int? = .none >> let b : Int? = .some(5) >> >> Using the simpler >> >> let a : Int? = nil >> let b : Int? = 5 >> >> is just sugar. >> Maybe it was foresight to prevent people from saying, if I can do: >> >> let a : Int? = none >> >> Why can't I do: >> >> let b : Int? = some(5) >> >> And then go a step further by asking for all enum to be access without the >> leading dot; scary thought. >> >> So it may be better to stick with '.none' and sugared 'nil'. >> >> Dany >> >> Le 7 juin 2016 à 20:16, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >> <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >>> That's exactly the point I was going for. >>> >>> none makes more sense in this context than nil in my opinion >>> >>> Brandon >>> >>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 8:10 PM, Saagar Jha <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Well, some is the opposite of none in that if I don’t have some, I have >>>> none. nil is just a carry-over from Objective-C. >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:07 PM Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> I guess for me it comes down to this: >>>>> >>>>> Why were some and none chosen for as the cases for Optional? >>>>> >>>>> As an extension of that, why does nil then represent none instead of the >>>>> obvious none? >>>>> >>>>> There has to be a reason why it's not: >>>>> >>>>> enum Optional<T> { >>>>> case some(T) >>>>> case nil >>>>> } >>>>> >>>>> None seems a lot more expressive and consistent with Optional. >>>>> >>>>> I am comfortable and use to nil, but with swift being a new language, I >>>>> thought it was worth opening up a discussion about possibly changing >>>>> direction a little here. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Brandon >>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 7:57 PM, Jordan Rose <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> There are NilLiteralConvertible types other than Optional, but they’re >>>>>> dwindling now that pointer nullability is represented by Optional. That >>>>>> said, I’m not convinced renaming “nil” is worth it at this point. >>>>>> Similarity with other languages is still a good thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> It’s true that we might not have picked nil if it hadn’t been for >>>>>> Objective-C, but that doesn’t make it an invalid choice. There are lots >>>>>> of things in Swift we might have done differently if it weren’t for >>>>>> Objective-C and Cocoa. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jordan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 5, 2016, at 12:35, Brandon Knope via swift-evolution >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quick thought: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If optional has a .none case, wouldn't it be more consistent to rename >>>>>>> nil to none? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, would nil make it into Swift if not for other languages? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It also might make it somewhat clearer: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> var someInt: Int? = none //looks less like a pointer and more like a >>>>>>> value of nothing >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. It is more consistent with the optional enum >>>>>>> 2. The intent is arguably clearer >>>>>>> 3. nil makes it seem like it's a pointer >>>>>>> 4. Would nil be included if not for prior languages? Would "none" have >>>>>>> been chosen as the keyword if nil wasn't prior art? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One disadvantage is how close it is to .none, but with how common >>>>>>> nil/none is used, some syntactic sugar might make it look nicer than >>>>>>> always having the stray . >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On vacation from Orlando, poolside, with a quick thought, >>>>>>> Brandon >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> swift-evolution mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -Saagar Jha >>> _______________________________________________ >>> swift-evolution mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution >> >> _______________________________________________ >> swift-evolution mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution > > _______________________________________________ > swift-evolution mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.swift.org/mailman/listinfo/swift-evolution
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