> > svnadmin create .\repository
> > svnserve -r .
> >
> > and a repository is created and served via svnserve. With the
> above
> > defaults, a third step is required, which can get tedious. I'd
> propose
> > enabling svnserve by default, and it can then be disabled if
> required. This
> > also ma
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 11:43 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 1/4/2011 8:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>>
>> This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
>> led to clients of mine rejecting Subversion outright. And it looks
>> like a legacy of Subversion's re-implementation
Les Mikesell wrote on Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 10:43:58 -0600:
> On 1/4/2011 8:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>>
>> This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
>> led to clients of mine rejecting Subversion outright. And it looks
>> like a legacy of Subversion's re-implement
On 1/4/2011 8:25 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
led to clients of mine rejecting Subversion outright. And it looks
like a legacy of Subversion's re-implementation of CVS, described as
"CVS done right". CVS security was even wor
On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 1:29 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
>
>> Of course you _can_ secure it. My point is that permitting ssh and
>> restricting access to ssh by itself is very likely to make your system less
>> secure (if you count on firewal
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 2:19 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Of course you _can_ secure it. My point is that permitting ssh and
> restricting access to ssh by itself is very likely to make your system less
> secure (if you count on firewall protections) instead of more so. And
> nothing that can be don
On 1/5/2011 1:04 PM, David Brodbeck wrote:
It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access,
disable or
block other services at the firewall,
If ssh is permitted and you didn't personally set it up, what are
the odds that port tunneling or ssh's built i
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 8:46 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 1/2/2011 9:43 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>
>>
>> It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access, disable or
>> block other services at the firewall,
>>
>
> If ssh is permitted and you didn't personally set it up, what are the o
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:31 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> It's *too* easy. Since the default svnserve.conf is very permissive,
> and because default svnserve is on an unprivileged port so any user
> can serve anyone else's "readable" repository to outside access,
> without the original author's
Nico, please stop saying "I don't like X" everywhere.
Stefan Sperling wrote on Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 11:09:06 +0100:
> On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 09:25:11PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> > This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
> > led to clients of mine rejecting S
Nice, please stop saying "I don't like X" everywhere.
Stefan Sperling wrote on Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 11:09:06 +0100:
> On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 09:25:11PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> > This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
> > led to clients of mine rejecting S
On Tue, Jan 04, 2011 at 09:25:11PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> This is a very large and longstanding issue for me and others, and has
> led to clients of mine rejecting Subversion outright. And it looks
> like a legacy of Subversion's re-implementation of CVS, described as
> "CVS done right".
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Becroft
> wrote:
>
> > svnadmin create .\repository
> > svnserve -r .
> >
> > and a repository is created and served via svnserve. With the above
> > defaults, a third step is required, which can g
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 1/2/2011 9:43 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>>
>> It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access, disable or
>> block other services at the firewall,
>
> If ssh is permitted and you didn't personally set it up, what are the odds
>
On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 4:56 PM, Daniel Becroft wrote:
> svnadmin create .\repository
> svnserve -r .
>
> and a repository is created and served via svnserve. With the above
> defaults, a third step is required, which can get tedious. I'd propose
> enabling svnserve by default, and it can then be
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 3:56 PM, Nick wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 11:49 -0500, Mark Phippard wrote:
>> > Apologies in advance if this is covered somewhere, but can someone
>> > explain (or point me to some references on) why using SVN w/ Apache
>> > (HTTPS) is insecure? I've seen some reference
On Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 07:56:48AM +1000, Daniel Becroft wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > = Impact on the repository format =
> >
> > A format bump (in REPOS/format, not REPOS/db/format) is required.
> > The new feature shall only be activated for repositories w
On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 5:35 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 03, 2011 at 02:35:08PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 11:58:09PM -0700, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> > > I don't care how you do that. As long as it's easily
> > > understandable, preferably to both e
How about allowing to choose not just at mod_dav_svn v. svnserve
granularity, but at the httpd instance / svnserve
instance granularity.
Requires 'svnserve --instance-name=foo' (and a corresponding httpd.conf
directive)
and specifying that 'foo' somewhere in the config file.
Stefan Sperling wr
On Mon, Jan 03, 2011 at 02:35:08PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 11:58:09PM -0700, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> > I don't care how you do that. As long as it's easily
> > understandable, preferably to both existing users and new ones.
>
> Apart from improving documentatio
On Mon, Jan 03, 2011 at 04:19:20PM -0500, Andy Levy wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 15:56, Nick wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 11:49 -0500, Mark Phippard wrote:
> >> > Apologies in advance if this is covered somewhere, but can someone
> >> > explain (or point me to some references on) why using
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 15:56, Nick wrote:
> On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 11:49 -0500, Mark Phippard wrote:
>> > Apologies in advance if this is covered somewhere, but can someone
>> > explain (or point me to some references on) why using SVN w/ Apache
>> > (HTTPS) is insecure? I've seen some references
On Mon, 2011-01-03 at 11:49 -0500, Mark Phippard wrote:
> > Apologies in advance if this is covered somewhere, but can someone
> > explain (or point me to some references on) why using SVN w/ Apache
> > (HTTPS) is insecure? I've seen some references to plain text
> password
> > storage, but I don'
On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Nick wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-01-02 at 22:43 -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>
>> It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access, disable or
>> block other services at the firewall, and keep it away from HTTP/HTTPS
>> in order to prevent UNIx or Linux clien
On 1/2/2011 9:43 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access, disable or
block other services at the firewall,
If ssh is permitted and you didn't personally set it up, what are the
odds that port tunneling or ssh's built in socks proxy will allow acc
On Sun, 2011-01-02 at 22:43 -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> It's possible to do secure Subversion. Use svn+ssh access, disable or
> block other services at the firewall, and keep it away from HTTP/HTTPS
> in order to prevent UNIx or Linux client plaintext password storage.
Apologies in advance
On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 11:58:09PM -0700, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> On 12/30/10 7:29 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> >You may conveniently argue that you don't care about this problem
> >because it doesn't concern you. But Subversion developers cannot just
> >add options and functionality without co
On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 10:29:22PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> You've just made my point that it should be automated upstream.
Instead of riding on the obvious shortcomings of a two-line shell
script I was using to badly illustrate an idea, why don't you spend
time writing up a "Setting up S
[ Changing the subject line, this has gone off the deep end, partly my fault. ]
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Tony Sweeney wrote:
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nico Kadel-Garcia [mailto:nka...@gmail.com]
>>It's not cow. Subversion security is *goat*. Inexpensive to buy the
>>unprepa
-Original Message-
From: Nico Kadel-Garcia [mailto:nka...@gmail.com]
Sent: 02 January 2011 12:55
To: Philip Prindeville
Cc: Ryan Schmidt; users@subversion.apache.org
Subject: Re: svnadmin create and not being method agnostic
>On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Philip Prindeville
>
On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Philip Prindeville
wrote:
> On 1/1/11 8:29 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>> To set up the first time for testing? No. To set up securely? Youch.
>> It's paide me some very remunerative consulting wages, becuase it took
>> someone as paranoid as me to clean it up. It
On 1/1/11 8:29 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
What if the user later decides to use svnserve instead of apache?
How would the principle of least astonishment be applied then?
Do we tell those users to copy svnserve.conf from another reposi
On 12/30/10 7:41 AM, Bob Archer wrote:
I can also argue with the Principle of least astonishment:
So say we've added a new svnadmin option --dont-create-svnserve-
config,
and we've made svnserve skip repositories which don't have an
svnserve.conf file within them (putting aside the still unsolve
On 12/30/10 7:29 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 09:03:16AM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
On 12/29/10 8:34 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
The initial concern raised in this thread was that there might exist
a hypoth
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Bob Archer wrote:
> Is there really that much overhead in deleting the binary and insuring the
> correct permissions are used on the repository folders to "keep the honest,
> honest?" After all, any one with root/administrator access is able to bypass
> anythin
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> What if the user later decides to use svnserve instead of apache?
> How would the principle of least astonishment be applied then?
>
> Do we tell those users to copy svnserve.conf from another repository?
> Do we add a new option --create-
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 05:02:55PM +0200, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> Stefan Sperling wrote on Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 15:48:16 +0100:
> > It would be nice if the outcome of this thread was a document detailing
> > requirements and solutions for a secure, apache-only subversion setup
> > on a unix system.
Stefan Sperling wrote on Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 15:48:16 +0100:
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 03:32:01PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 03:29:11PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > > create-svn-repos.sh:
> > > #!/bin/sh
> > > svnadmin create $1
> > > rm -f $1/conf/svnserve.
> Windows (if that can be considered "secure" in the first
> place),
> that would also be interesting. But I'm afraid I wouldn't be able
> to help with that.
Why all the hate? :)
Suffice to say, windows servers (these days) are only as secure as the admin
makes it. I guess that applies to *Nix
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 03:32:01PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 03:29:11PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > create-svn-repos.sh:
> > #!/bin/sh
> > svnadmin create $1
> > rm -f $1/conf/svnserve.conf
>
> Of course, you would also need to delete svnserve from the syste
> I can also argue with the Principle of least astonishment:
>
> So say we've added a new svnadmin option --dont-create-svnserve-
> config,
> and we've made svnserve skip repositories which don't have an
> svnserve.conf file within them (putting aside the still unsolved
> problem
> of what svnserv
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 03:29:11PM +0100, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> create-svn-repos.sh:
> #!/bin/sh
> svnadmin create $1
> rm -f $1/conf/svnserve.conf
Of course, you would also need to delete svnserve from the system
and somehow make sure that no local user can compile their own
svnserve binar
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 09:03:16AM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> On 12/29/10 8:34 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> >>The initial concern raised in this thread was that there might exist
> >>a hypothetical exploit of svnserve. I'm not s
Guten Tag Philip Prindeville,
am Mittwoch, 29. Dezember 2010 um 18:03 schrieben Sie:
> So my concern is this: I want to be able to easily, clearly, and
> with high confidence set up SVN to *only* work via Apache, and no
> other way.
Then your real problem is that svnserve does exist and is execut
On 12/29/10 11:03 AM, Philip Prindeville wrote:
That's unclear, I agree. I've taken it in a slightly different
direction, trying to address his concerns.
So my concern is this: I want to be able to easily, clearly, and with high
confidence set up SVN to *only* work via Apache, and no other wa
On 12/29/10 8:34 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:43:13AM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:11:47PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:43:13AM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
>> > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:11:47PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>> >> As Stefan pointes out elsewhere,
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 10:43:13AM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:11:47PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >> As Stefan pointes out elsewhere, svnserve will run without an
> >> svnserve.conf. Perhaps it *sh
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:11:47PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>> As Stefan pointes out elsewhere, svnserve will run without an
>> svnserve.conf. Perhaps it *shouldn't*, and the default svnserve.conf
>> should be published as svnserve.
> 2010/12/28 Thorsten Schöning
> Guten Tag Philip Prindeville,
> am Montag, 27. Dezember 2010 um 22:28 schrieben Sie:
>
> > In our case, we're setting up a secured source repository inside
> > our network, for outside access (via port-forwarding on our
> gateway).
> In this scenario and if securi
2010/12/28 Thorsten Schöning
> Guten Tag Philip Prindeville,
> am Montag, 27. Dezember 2010 um 22:28 schrieben Sie:
>
> > In our case, we're setting up a secured source repository inside
> > our network, for outside access (via port-forwarding on our gateway).
>
> In this scenario and if security
On 12/28/10 1:57 PM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
But better client and server access control is also hardly "unheard
of". Plenty of more modern tools take client and server security far
more seriously, including cross-platform source control tools.
Bitkeeper, git, Perforce, and mercurial all leap t
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Les Mikesell wrote:
> On 12/28/10 11:11 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>>
>> Disabled entirely would be better, and safer, than empty. Subversion's
>> security models have historically been very lax. This is inherited
>> from its origins in CVS, and the attitude that
On 12/28/10 11:11 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
Disabled entirely would be better, and safer, than empty. Subversion's
security models have historically been very lax. This is inherited
from its origins in CVS, and the attitude that "if you don't trust
your machine, you shouldn't be using it!!!".
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 12:11:47PM -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> As Stefan pointes out elsewhere, svnserve will run without an
> svnserve.conf. Perhaps it *shouldn't*, and the default svnserve.conf
> should be published as svnserve.conf.tmpl? That would force manual
> enabling of a service that
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:58 AM, Philip Prindeville
wrote:
> On 12/28/10 3:44 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 01:28:34PM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
>>>
>>> On 12/27/10 11:34 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
On Dec 24, 2010, at 23:34, Philip Prindeville wrote:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 08:58:43AM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> On 12/28/10 3:44 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
> >The important bit about security is that admins understand how to configure
> >the application they're setting up. They can then configure it securely.
> >I suppose your real concern
On 12/28/10 3:44 AM, Stefan Sperling wrote:
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 01:28:34PM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
On 12/27/10 11:34 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
On Dec 24, 2010, at 23:34, Philip Prindeville wrote:
Unfortunately, the documentation and utilities in a few places are less clear
than th
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 01:28:34PM -0800, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> On 12/27/10 11:34 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
> >On Dec 24, 2010, at 23:34, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> >
> >>Unfortunately, the documentation and utilities in a few places are less
> >>clear than they could be when discussing repos
Guten Tag Philip Prindeville,
am Montag, 27. Dezember 2010 um 22:28 schrieben Sie:
> In our case, we're setting up a secured source repository inside
> our network, for outside access (via port-forwarding on our gateway).
In this scenario and if security is this important for you, then why
not ju
On 12/27/10 11:34 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote:
On Dec 24, 2010, at 23:34, Philip Prindeville wrote:
Unfortunately, the documentation and utilities in a few places are less clear
than they could be when discussing repository setup for svnserve versus
svnserve+ssh versus apache.
For instance, "svna
On Dec 24, 2010, at 23:34, Philip Prindeville wrote:
> Unfortunately, the documentation and utilities in a few places are less clear
> than they could be when discussing repository setup for svnserve versus
> svnserve+ssh versus apache.
>
> For instance, "svnadmin create" deposits various file
Hi.
I'm a long-time svn user but only recently had to set one up myself.
I was doing so on linux (Fedora) using Apache as the access method.
Unfortunately, the documentation and utilities in a few places are less clear
than they could be when discussing repository setup for svnserve versus
sv
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