Ed Singleton wrote:
> On 26/11/05, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I'm sure Python is quite possibly the least worst at this, but that
>>>doesn't make it good at it.
>>
>>Which brings me back to my original question, what environment
>>do you think is good at it? Are you aware of such an e
> However, I'm still slightly uncomfortable with it. It smells to me a
> bit like the "as long as it works, its fine" school of thought.
FRom the client point of view thats true, but from the class designers
point of view its very important that the internals be we well designed.
And that include
> I had the misfortune a couple of days ago of having to knock up a couple
> of web pages in ASP. A very basic search form, results page and details
> page. I had to open up a connection to the database, open a recordset,
> concatenate a strings to make an SQL query, etc, etc.
>
> It was horrible
>From this and what Alan said, I think I'm starting to get it. Each
> attribute could be an object or an entry in a list. Each type would
> be a collection or list of a particular set of attributes. The
> collection of types would be an object which is easily persisted.
Absolutely!
> Can you c
On 26/11/05, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> point. Classes express behaviour, the data is only there to support
> >> the behaviour. Thats why methods are polymorphic but not attributes.
> >
> >If classes express behaviour, then what expresses the structure of the
> > data?
>
> Why do yo
Hi Ed,
> Maybe it's just knowing what'll be possible in 10 years time and being
> impatient for it.
The problem is that over twenty years ago when I was at university the
Japanese anounced that they would have launched a 5th generation
computer language by 1990. They gave up and we are still wa
On 26/11/05, Kent Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ed Singleton wrote:
> >>>This immediately seemed to me to be a case for classes.
> >>>You provide a way for a user to create a new class by
> >>>subclassing the page class (from their point of view
> >>>probably through adding a few new fields
On 25/11/05, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Ed,
>
> This is a longish response because you are raising some
> very interesting (and deep) issues from a computer science
> point of view.
>
> > Well, self-modifying isn't inherently necessary. What I guess I
> > really need is persisten
>> point. Classes express behaviour, the data is only there to support
>> the behaviour. Thats why methods are polymorphic but not attributes.
>
>If classes express behaviour, then what expresses the structure of the
> data?
Why do you care? If the program behaves as you expect it what does
it
Ed Singleton wrote:
>>>This immediately seemed to me to be a case for classes.
>>>You provide a way for a user to create a new class by
>>>subclassing the page class (from their point of view
>>>probably through adding a few new fields to
>>>a form).
>
> The behaviours of all the
> classes would b
On 25/11/05, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just had a quick look at Smalltalk, and at first glance the overview
> > of the ideas behind it seems amazing, but the language seems quite
> > ugly, and it seems to be very IDE led.
>
> Adherents will defend its simplicity but I confess I stru
Ed Singleton wrote:
> Can a python program change a class, change all the objects already
> created by that class and save the modified class definition, so that
> if the program were restarted it would return to exactly the same
> state? (assuming all objects were saved to a database or somesuch).
Hi Ed,
This is a longish response because you are
raising some
very interesting (and deep) issues from a
computer science
point of view.
> Well, self-modifying isn't inherently
necessary. What I guess I> really need is persistent classes as
well as persistent objects.
Python classes c
> Just had a quick look at Smalltalk, and at first glance the overview
> of the ideas behind it seems amazing, but the language seems quite
> ugly, and it seems to be very IDE led.
Adherents will defend its simplicity but I confess I strugglred for
a long time with SmallTalk before learning to lo
Ed Singleton wrote:
> Weirdly, I'd just realised that SQLObject does most of what I'm
> thinking about.
Ahhh. (sigh of relief :-)
Kent
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On 25/11/05, Ismael Garrido <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ed Singleton wrote:
>
> >I want to create a small simple CMS for my website. Users will be
> >able to add and edit basic pages. Pages can have sub-pages (no need
> >for folders cause a folder and an index.html can be unified into one
> >con
Ed Singleton wrote:
>I want to create a small simple CMS for my website. Users will be
>able to add and edit basic pages. Pages can have sub-pages (no need
>for folders cause a folder and an index.html can be unified into one
>concept).
>
>Users will also be able to create new types of pages, ma
Ed Singleton wrote:
> On 24/11/05, Kent Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It sounds like maybe you come from a background in Smalltalk, or
>> maybe you should look at Smalltalk. In Smalltalk the whole
>> environment is dynamic and can be saved and restored easily.>
>
> Just had a quick look a
Ed Singleton wrote:
> I think I can actually achieve this to some degree by doing:
>
> Class Page(object):
> def print(self):
> printPage(self)
>
> And have all my methods call functions (passing on parameters as
> necessary). That way if I change a function, it will be changed for
On 24/11/05, Alan Gauld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are many ways of doing this, few of them very nice IMHO.
>
> > without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> > program to change it's own source code while it is running?
>
> Yes, you can overwrite an existing module the
On 24/11/05, Kent Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ed Singleton wrote:
> > Is it feasible to change a program's source code whilst it is running
> > without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> > program to change it's own source code while it is running?
>
> You can change
> For example if your program is running, and you make a change to a
> class, is it possible to create the necessary class definition and
> save it to a file?
You can do that but even if you do follow the LSP closely, you still
can have problems, especially when you subtract functions or data
ra
There are many ways of doing this, few of them very nice IMHO.
> without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> program to change it's own source code while it is running?
Yes, you can overwrite an existing module then call reload
from within the program.
> For example, if yo
Ed Singleton wrote:
> Is it feasible to change a program's source code whilst it is running
> without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> program to change it's own source code while it is running?
You can change a class while it is running.
>
> For example, if you have a we
Ed Singleton wrote:
> Hmmm, that's discouraging. Do you know if it's feasible to just keep
> changes to code in memory synchronised with changes nto the source
> code? So rather than reload source code, make sure that the source
> code reflects what is running in memory?
>
> For example if your
On 24/11/05, Kent Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ed Singleton wrote:
> > Is it feasible to change a program's source code whilst it is running
> > without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> > program to change it's own source code while it is running?
> >
> > For exampl
Ed Singleton wrote:
> Is it feasible to change a program's source code whilst it is running
> without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
> program to change it's own source code while it is running?
>
> For example, if you have a web server such as CherryPy that will
> (hopefu
Is it feasible to change a program's source code whilst it is running
without having to restart the program? Is it feasible to get a
program to change it's own source code while it is running?
For example, if you have a web server such as CherryPy that will
(hopefully) be running for months at a
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