Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-11 Thread David Schinazi
Hi Q, MASQUE was designed as a censorship prevention tool. That's not mentioned in the specs themselves, but the design was focused on enabling as much obfuscation as possible. Additionally, existing two-hop MASQUE systems like Apple's iCloud Private Relay and Google's IP Protection were inspired

Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-10 Thread David Goulet
On 10 Oct (09:57:20), Nick Mathewson wrote: [...] > I like Tor-over-QUIC and think it's a neat idea, but there's a lot of > investigation to be done. I wonder what some logical next steps would > be here? Many moons ago, Mike spent considerable time evaluating this. You can see a summary here:

Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-10 Thread Nick Mathewson
On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 3:57 AM Q Misell via tor-dev wrote: [...] > What are people's thoughts on this? Hi, Q! I think migrating to QUIC over time might help a lot, particularly in relay-to-relay communications where we have a large number of circuits to multiplex. ## Design points * I agree w

Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-10 Thread George Hartley via tor-dev
-  I don't understand why SNI is being be discussed here, ESNI/ECH wouldn't bring much to Tor, there are better ways than looking at the client hello to detect a Tor relay, starting by its IP being public. Hey, looks like you misunderstood me, I was not talking about relay detection, but mal

Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-08 Thread trinity pointard
I think QUIC could be an improvement, though I'm worried adding QUIC wouldn't remove the need for Tor over TLS, which might add more maintenance burden. Even with QUIC, we will need to support TLS for some time so as to not partition the network. Also, it used to be that UDP was 2nd class citizen

Re: [tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-08 Thread George Hartley via tor-dev
- What are people's thoughts on this? To be honest, I don't really care about UDP support. Adding UDP support also would presumably add a lot of torrent load to the network, and yes I know that torrent clients can fall back to TCP and this is already an issue. Regarding TLS, it's still some

[tor-dev] Tor over QUIC

2024-10-04 Thread Q Misell via tor-dev
Hi all, I know the discussion on how best to support UDP applications over Tor has dragged on for a long time, so I thought what better to do than to throw another item to bikeshed into the discussion :) On a more serious note I think running Tor over QUIC would provide several advantages - both f