Hi,
> If it's a matter of "I don't want my workflow to change too much", I'm
> not familiar with everybody's setups and requirements and it's not a
> precise-enough requirement for me to write the code (and block the
> inclusion of the pull request).
It's almost zero change to my workflow. I o
On 20/08/20 18:14, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> I just don't understand why 99.9% of it were okay to do, but the final
> bit that would make the switch a lot more seamless to people is asking
> too much. You're familiar with the state after your patches, I'm not. I
> assume you're also the one who sends the
Am 20.08.2020 um 17:50 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
> On 20/08/20 15:30, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > So without that, and also without a mention in deprecated.rst, I don't
> > think having mentioned a wish to break things a while ago means that we
> > should just follow through with that despite the ob
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 08:14:33PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 at 13:32, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:50:23PM +0100, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> > > This was discussed before. I think instead of annoying people with a
> > > warning, rather configure shoul
On 20/08/20 15:30, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> So without that, and also without a mention in deprecated.rst, I don't
> think having mentioned a wish to break things a while ago means that we
> should just follow through with that despite the objections.
>
> At least this isn't how it has worked for other
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 14:30, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>
> Am 20.08.2020 um 13:56 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
> > The Meson conversion was announced in October 2019 as breaking in-tree
> > builds, and the deprecation request is from March 2020. So I don't
> > think this is a breakage but rather a wid
Am 20.08.2020 um 13:56 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
> On 20/08/20 12:54, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> >> Paolo's conversion-to-Meson patchseries is about to land, so now
> >> is the time for people who would like this "automatically create
> >> a build directory and use it" behaviour to write the necessar
On Thu, 20 Aug 2020 at 12:56, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
>
> On 20/08/20 12:54, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> >> Paolo's conversion-to-Meson patchseries is about to land, so now
> >> is the time for people who would like this "automatically create
> >> a build directory and use it" behaviour to write the necessar
On 20/08/20 12:54, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>> Paolo's conversion-to-Meson patchseries is about to land, so now
>> is the time for people who would like this "automatically create
>> a build directory and use it" behaviour to write the necessary
>> patches. Any volunteers ?
>>
>> My current plan is to lan
20.08.2020 13:54, Kevin Wolf wrote:
[]
>> My current plan is to land the Meson series first, because it is
>> really painful for Paolo to try to keep rebasing it as other
>> changes to the old build system occur. This would break
>> in-tree builds temporarily until the "automatic creation and
>> us
Am 18.08.2020 um 21:14 hat Peter Maydell geschrieben:
> On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 at 13:32, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> > On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:50:23PM +0100, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> > > This was discussed before. I think instead of annoying people with a
> > > warning, rather configure should be chan
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 at 13:32, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:50:23PM +0100, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> > This was discussed before. I think instead of annoying people with a
> > warning, rather configure should be changed to create a build dir if run
> > from source and have a Ma
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 05:04:16PM +0200, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
OK, so then only supporting out-of-tree builds but adding convenience
function and Makefile to still allow people to run configure; make from
source dir would solve this without also ne
Am 31.03.2020 um 17:20 hat BALATON Zoltan geschrieben:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Eric Blake wrote:
> > On 3/31/20 7:02 AM, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > > Am 31.03.2020 um 09:48 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
> > > > On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > > > > If manually dealing with separate build direct
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 05:04:16PM +0200, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
> > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 02:33:46PM +0200, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> > > > We will have to ask developers to change habits anyway when we switch to
> > > > Meson. I agree with Daniel's
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 15:07, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>
> Thanks for declaring my workflow irrelevant, I guess...
Sorry if this happened, it was not intended.
The intention was to point out that there are also other use cases of running
the QEMU builds, different from those specific to building Lin
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Eric Blake wrote:
On 3/31/20 7:02 AM, Kevin Wolf wrote:
Am 31.03.2020 um 09:48 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this w
On 3/31/20 7:02 AM, Kevin Wolf wrote:
Am 31.03.2020 um 09:48 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this would mean
introducing the automatic dire
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote:
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 02:33:46PM +0200, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
We will have to ask developers to change habits anyway when we switch to
Meson. I agree with Daniel's recommendation to delay changes requiring
habit-changes until then. However, tell
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this would mean
introducing the automatic directly creation together with the other
changes to en
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 02:33:46PM +0200, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> > We will have to ask developers to change habits anyway when we switch to
> > Meson. I agree with Daniel's recommendation to delay changes requiring
> > habit-changes until then. However, telling people to stay clear of the
> > un
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020, Markus Armbruster wrote:
Peter Maydell writes:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
Peter Maydell writes:
AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
building in a separat
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:24, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>
> Am 31.03.2020 um 14:05 hat Peter Maydell geschrieben:
> > On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:02, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > > Mainly because it allows me to start everything (most importantly: my
> > > editor, git and make) from the same directory.
> >
> > Yo
Am 31.03.2020 um 14:05 hat Peter Maydell geschrieben:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:02, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > Mainly because it allows me to start everything (most importantly: my
> > editor, git and make) from the same directory.
>
> You can use 'make -C build/whatever' to avoid having to change d
Am 31.03.2020 um 13:46 hat Liviu Ionescu geschrieben:
> > On 31 Mar 2020, at 13:19, Peter Maydell wrote:
> >
> >
> > ... the behaviour
> > if they're run from some other (manually created) build directory
> > would remain as it is today.
>
> Great!
>
> Then for now a strongly worded warning di
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 13:02, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> Mainly because it allows me to start everything (most importantly: my
> editor, git and make) from the same directory.
You can use 'make -C build/whatever' to avoid having to change directory.
The odd one out here is configure, where you have to s
Am 31.03.2020 um 09:48 hat Paolo Bonzini geschrieben:
> On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
> > today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this would mean
> > introducing the automatic directly creation together with
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 13:19, Peter Maydell wrote:
>
>
> ... the behaviour
> if they're run from some other (manually created) build directory
> would remain as it is today.
Great!
Then for now a strongly worded warning displayed at the end of the build (to be
clearly visible) should do it,
On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 08:50:34PM +, Peter Maydell wrote:
> AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
> probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, s
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 at 10:20, Liviu Ionescu wrote:
> > On 31 Mar 2020, at 10:48, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
> > Serious question: why is automatic directly creation more convenient for
> > developers?
>
> For my use case it isn't, automatic creation will break my folder structure
> and I'll not be abl
> On 31 Mar 2020, at 10:48, Paolo Bonzini wrote:
>
> On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
>> If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
>> today,
It may be for some, but it isn't for all, perhaps we should not generalise and
get the wrong conclusions.
In the xPack B
On 30/03/20 16:37, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> If manually dealing with separate build directories is inconvenient
> today, it will still be inconvenient with Meson, so this would mean
> introducing the automatic directly creation together with the other
> changes to enable Meson. Which is fine by me, as l
Peter Maydell writes:
> On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
>>
>> Peter Maydell writes:
>>
>> > AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
>> > stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
>> > building in a separate build directory. I thoug
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020, Michal Suchánek wrote:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 04:37:59PM +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote:
Am 30.03.2020 um 15:42 hat Daniel P. Berrangé geschrieben:
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 02:31:52PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
Peter Mayd
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 07:29:55PM +0200, Michal Suchánek wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 04:37:59PM +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> > Am 30.03.2020 um 15:42 hat Daniel P. Berrangé geschrieben:
> > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 02:31:52PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Ma
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 04:37:59PM +0200, Kevin Wolf wrote:
> Am 30.03.2020 um 15:42 hat Daniel P. Berrangé geschrieben:
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 02:31:52PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > > On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Peter Maydell writes:
> > > >
>
15:32 Pon, 30.03.2020. Peter Maydell је
написао/ла:
>
> Consensus in the thread seemed to lean towards having
> the 'configure/make' runes auto-create a build directory;
> if we want to do that we should probably not say anything in
> the release notes, because we'll cause people to change
> unnec
Am 30.03.2020 um 15:42 hat Daniel P. Berrangé geschrieben:
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 02:31:52PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> > >
> > > Peter Maydell writes:
> > >
> > > > AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> >
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 02:31:52PM +0100, Peter Maydell wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> >
> > Peter Maydell writes:
> >
> > > AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> > > stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> > > bu
On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 14:26, Markus Armbruster wrote:
>
> Peter Maydell writes:
>
> > AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> > stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> > building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
> > probably mentio
Peter Maydell writes:
> AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
> probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, so I wrote up some
> text:
>
> https://w
On 3/23/20 8:32 AM, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
We could also make configure actively warn if used in
the source tree.
This was discussed before. I think instead of annoying people with a
warning, rather configure should be changed to create a build dir if run
from source and have a Makefile in top
On Sat, Mar 21, 2020 at 11:50:23PM +0100, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> > stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> > building in a separate build directory. I thought we sho
On Sun, Mar 22, 2020 at 08:14:24PM +, Peter Maydell wrote:
> To be clear, I'm not saying we should pull the rug out
> from anybody. I'm saying:
> * we should clearly say what our plans are, with a
>long warning if we can reasonably give longer warning
> * if there's anything that we would
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 20:46, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
Before you told me about the gprof issue, the *only* thing
Was that gprof or gcov?
Sorry, gcov; I always get those two mixed up in my head.
Plus potenti
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 20:46, BALATON Zoltan wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
> > Before you told me about the gprof issue, the *only* thing
>
> Was that gprof or gcov?
Sorry, gcov; I always get those two mixed up in my head.
> Plus potentially any scripts people might use to b
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 19:52, Aleksandar Markovic
wrote:
If an end-user feature works only in in-tree builds (so,
explitely said: not in out-of-tree builds), this is not
a build-time stuff, but user-facing feature issue.
gprof is a developer feature,
21:14 Ned, 22.03.2020. Peter Maydell
> *Everything* is supposed to work in out of tree builds.
> If it doesn't that's a bug -- unless people report bugs
> we'll never know to fix them. Most developers use out
> of tree builds and all our CI is out of tree builds, so
> they actually get better ad-ho
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 19:52, Aleksandar Markovic
wrote:
> If an end-user feature works only in in-tree builds (so,
> explitely said: not in out-of-tree builds), this is not
> a build-time stuff, but user-facing feature issue.
gprof is a developer feature, not an end-user-facing
feature. By the l
18:21 Ned, 22.03.2020. Peter Maydell је
написао/ла:
>
> On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 15:29, Aleksandar Markovic
> wrote:
> > If the "progress" (in the form of deprecation) is so impotrant, than
the authors should devise it so that there is no dammage to existing
features, and no adverse effects.
> >
>
On Sun, 22 Mar 2020 at 15:29, Aleksandar Markovic
wrote:
> If the "progress" (in the form of deprecation) is so impotrant, than the
> authors should devise it so that there is no dammage to existing features,
> and no adverse effects.
>
> In this light, perhaps in-tree builds deorecation is 5.0
9:51 PM Sub, 21.03.2020. Peter Maydell је
написао/ла:
>
> AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
> stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
> building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
> probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, so I wr
On Sat, 21 Mar 2020, Peter Maydell wrote:
AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, so I wrote up some
text:
ht
AIUI from Paolo, the intention is to deprecate and eventually
stop supporting "in-tree" builds, so that the only option is
building in a separate build directory. I thought we should
probably mention that in the 5.0 changelog, so I wrote up some
text:
https://wiki.qemu.org/ChangeLog/5.0#Build_Info
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