On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:20:24 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 10/16/12 12:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Well, I was hoping for a pure Python solution, rather than having to
>> troll through who knows how many thousands of lines of code in a
>> language I can barely re
behaviour? How will others know that I do not agree with your
advice?
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h your preferred name
(David rather than Dwight). You might not realise that your "From
address" still says Dwight -- I had to manually change it above.
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On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:10:17 -0700, rurpy wrote:
> On 10/16/2012 10:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> > On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:27:48 -0700, rurpy wrote about trolls and
>> > dicks:
>
> No, I wrote about trolls. "dicks" is a highly emotive and almost
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 02:45:04 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Dwight "call me David, but I can't be bothered changing my signature"
> Hutto's behaviour.
I withdraw this dig at David Hutto. It was unnecessary, and it turns out,
wrong as he has now changed his s
are that even if I'm not
interested in it, it is a part of Python culture and *somebody* needs to
deal with it. I'm just glad its not me.
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r had me tested!".
>>
>>
> Someone insulted my intelligence, and stated how they worked with much
> smarter people...
Much smarter people than *himself*, not smarter than you. Demian made no
comment about *your* intelligence.
> this was just a confidence statement that I'm
> intelligent as well, so don't get uppity with me.
Please tone down the aggression.
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atic and a poor design, you weren't directly the target of the
comment. I'm glad you already knew what Ian said, but you're not the only
person reading this thread.
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On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 14:10:34 -0700, rurpy wrote:
> On 10/17/2012 02:28 PM, Oscar Benjamin wrote:> On 17 October 2012 19:16,
> Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 3:48 AM, wrote:
>>>>On 10/16/2012 08:45 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>&g
for a couple
of days and then come back focused on Python, rather than on defending
yourself against real or imagined slights. I'm not your dad and I'm not
sending you to your room, but sometimes a man has to know when it's best
to just walk away and let things cool off, regardless of
s in the line was the
impetus that finally made you act.
> 6. Realise that if it's that long, it probably shouldn't have been a
> list comprehension in the first place.
What if it wasn't a list comp in the first place? :)
Refactoring code makes most long lines go away on their own.
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x27;fileC']
def testFilesExist(self):
for name in self.list_of_files:
assertTrue(os.path.exists(name)
total_tests, failed_tests = unittest.testmod() # I think...
if failed_tests != 0:
sys.exit(1)
run_application()
I think the first sample is much to be prefe
Error: invalid token
Honestly, it's not that hard to diagnose line continuation errors. It's
probably easier to diagnose them than to diagnose missing parentheses.
The more I hear people dissing line continuation backslashes, the more I
want to use them everywhere.
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Or possibly they're just unlucky to require a library with excessively
long names and can't do much about it.
I'm not saying that every line that exceeds 79 characters is crap, but I
am saying that if you have trouble keeping *at least* 90% of your code
under 79 characters, you may ve
r the hard parts, not the easy parts, and
so you should treat vertical space is cheaper than horizontal space, and
try to keep your line length down.
And note that, even when writing, most of your time is problem spent in
writing what is already there. Coding is rarely like typing out di
ction to take an argument and re-write the doctest:
>>> function(True)
[1, 2]
>>> function(False)
[1, 2, 3]
And now you have good code and a good doctest.
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y that Keynes, and Adam Smith for that matter, would have agreed
with him.
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wise the OP could
write his own code, possibly by subclassing from ConfigParser.
A simple google for "python ini file nested sections" finds this:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/ConfigParserShootout
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when you try to run it.
A 64-bit build requires a 64-bit operating system and 64-bit hardware. A
32-bit build can be used in either system.
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try to work with it one line at a time:
for line in open("some file"):
process(line)
rather than reading the whole file into memory at once:
lines = open("some file").readlines()
for line in lines:
process(line)
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long, because it can always be shortened.
Some code might be more conveniently written as a single long line. But I
would argue that nearly never is code more easily *read* as a single long
line, and since code is read much more than it is written, it is more
important to optimise for reading, not w
On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 23:59:03 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> On 10/19/12 11:29 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:09:53 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/19/12 11:51 AM, kampy wrote:
>>>> hi all,
>>>> my requirement is to hav
at does what in
preparation to refactoring it.
> Seriously -- I can't remember the last time I printed souce code...
I've never printed souce code either *wink*
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On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:20:41 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 14:18:47 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>> True, but nobody prints source code out on paper do they?
>>
>> I do.
>&
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 22:43:07 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> Er, no. Note spelling of "source code" vs "souce code". Hence the grin.
>
> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too
ion directly will raise error, is
> it right?
You can call the function directly, and it will return an generator
object. You don't have to iterate over that generator object, although
you normally will.
Example:
py> def test():
... yield 42
...
py> test
py> type(test)
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 07:22:18 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>>> Ahh. I totally didn't see that, I'm way too used to reading past
>>> typos.
>>
>> As a programmer, doesn't that
in
File "", line 3, in test
NameError: global name 'cos' is not defined
So, legal or not, they're definitely something you want to avoid.
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s
of the 1960s and 70s will never be obsolete. No matter how much memory
you have, there will always be times when you want to process more data
than you can fit into memory.
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 17:24:34 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:11 -0600, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>> if someone is foolish enough to use the
>>>>
>>>> f
.
Are you just excited and want to tell everyone, or do you actually have a
question?
Have you tried to write some code, or do you just expect others to do
your work for you?
If so, I see that your expectation was correct.
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requires that forward is a non-
lazy (eager) sequence. So again you're stuck trying to read the entire
file into RAM.
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olume in the first place. If it is written to a file, you can listen for
changes to the file without polling on Linux systems.
> If this is not possible with Python, any suggestions on what else are
> also welcome of course.
That's not a Python question, it's an Alsa question. Who
platform-specific code to get a
key press:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577977
Note however that it blocks if there is no key press waiting.
I suspect that you may need a proper event loop, as provided by GUI
frameworks, or curses.
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e -- that beast bit me!
I don't think so. Are you thinking of the famous Monty Python "Dead
Parrot Sketch"? Here's one of many versions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218
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so
handle the full range of generator behaviour, and allow generator code to
be refactored in a simple and straightforward way.
[end quote]
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0380/
"yield from" is a *huge* win in terms of correctness and power, not just
a trivial saving in lines
On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 01:51:43 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> I don't believe that there is any
>> way to jump back to the line of code that just failed (and why would
>> you, it will just fail again)
mber=100, repeat=7))
4.141788959503174
That makes the "inelegant" solution using bin() and count() about 600
times faster than the mathematically clever solution using bitwise
operations.
On the other hand, I'm guessing that PyPy would speed up MRAB's version
significantly.
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On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:17:40 -0700, rusi wrote:
> On Oct 25, 8:57 pm, Steven D'Aprano [email protected]> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 02:31:53 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 2:25 AM, Christian Heimes
>> > wrote:
>&
nders when you
divide the number by successively larger powers of some base.:
123 = 1*10**2 + 2*10**1 + 3*10**0
Hence, mathematical.
Of course, none of this challenges the fact that, at least in Python,
reasoning about digits is often best done on the string representation
rather than t
ot;"Return the index of the first NAN in seq, otherwise None."""
for i, x in enumerate(seq):
if isnan(x):
return i
For old versions of Python that don't provide an isnan function, you can
do this:
def isnan(x):
return x != x
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prior to the IEEE 754 standard.
Seriously, there are some real horror stories about numerical computing
back in the Bad Old Days. Like computers where 1.0/x could give a divide-
by-zero error even though x == 0 returned False.
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gt;
>def helper(s):
>for i in s[:-1]:
> yield i
> yield ' '
>yield s[-1]
>yield '\n'
>line = ''.join(tmp(args))
>
> Efficiency-wise, this is satisfactory.
Have you actually tested this? I would not be the least surprised if
that's actually less efficient than the (' '.join(seq) + '\n') version.
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 17:23:12 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> Why is everyone skirting around C-style assignment expressions as though
> they're simultaneously anathema and the goal? :)
Only if your goal is to introduce an anathema :P
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On Fri, 26 Oct 2012 03:54:02 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 10/25/2012 10:44 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 25 Oct 2012 22:04:52 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
>>
>>> It is a consequence of the following, which some people (but not all)
>>> be
ading to loss of precision or
even completely wrong answers.
Once NANs were introduced, keeping reflexivity would lead to even worse
situations than x != x. It would lead to nonsense identities like
log(-1) ==log(-2), hence 1 == 2.
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On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 03:45:46 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 3:23 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> In real life, you are *much* more likely to run into these examples of
>> "insanity" of floats than to be troubled by NANs:
>>
.
if x is None or x is False:
return
yield x
for x in iterate_until_none_or_false(
some_function, 1, 2, "c", spam="yummy"):
process(x)
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is probably better put into
fixing bugs. There is a great shortage of time and manpower for the
Python developers, there is a list of open bugs half a mile long. Every
minute spent adding new syntax for some minor benefit is time that could
be fixing bugs that cause actual problems with r
the reply is going to python-list. Then hit Send.
(P.S. when you signed up for [email protected], if you selected the
option to receive a single daily digest instead of individual emails,
you're going to have a bad time. Do yourself a favour -- and the rest of
us -- and change b
flexible, less efficient.
[snip]
> In 'C', where Python is written,
That's a popular misapprehension. Python is written in Java, or Lisp, or
Haskell, or CLR (dot Net), or RPython, or Ocaml, or Parrot. Each of those
languages have, or had, at least one Python implementation. Oh, there's
also a version written in C, or so I have heard.
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40]"
100 loops, best of 3: 0.342 usec per loop
[steve@ando ~]$ python2.7 -m timeit -s "x = range(100, 1000, 2)" "[x[i]
for i in xrange(20, 40)]"
10 loops, best of 3: 3.43 usec per loop
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:19:38 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> Because xrange represents a concrete sequence of numbers, all three of
> start, end and stride must be concrete, known, integers:
>
> py> xrange(4, None, 2)
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "
e-instances-in-python.html
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d the examples provided by
namedtuple's creator, Raymond Hettinger, that is precisely one of the
styles he uses. No need to explicitly declare the base class before using
it.
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access the functions in the callback
dictionary. So you gain nothing but extra work.
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et more clumsy in the immutable form, for
> example in the mutable form I would do simply this:
>
> number = NumWrapper(1)
> number.increment()
>
> while with immutability I have to do this instead:
> new_number = number.increment()
Why is this clumsy? Do you have problems with this?
x = 1
y = x+1
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On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 15:45:59 -0700, Chris Kaynor wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:30 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:05:07 +, andrea crotti wrote:
>>
>>> I meant how do I create new immutables classes myself, I guess that's
&g
f code written in
pure Python, because it sometimes can be useful. It flat out prohibits
monkey-patching of builtins, because it is just too dangerous.
Ruby allows monkey-patching of everything. And the result was predictable:
http://devblog.avdi.org/2008/02/23/why-monkeypatching-is-destroying-ruby/
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By the way Andrew, the timestamps on your emails appear to be off, or
possibly the time zone. Your posts are allegedly arriving before the
posts you reply to, at least according to my news client.
On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:34:24 -0700, Andrew Robinson wrote:
> On 10/29/2012 05:02 PM, Ste
gurus of Python
history. He invented Python's astonishingly excellent sort routine,
Timsort, and popularised the famous adverbial phrase signoffs you will
see in a lot of older posts.
Basically, he is in the pantheon of early Python demigods.
stop-me-before-i-start-gushing-over-the-timbot-ly y'rs,
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s, but
regarding your second point, it has seemed to me for some years now that
Gmail is the new Hotmail, which was the new AOL. Whenever there is an
inane, lazy, mind-numbingly stupid question or post, chances are
extremely high that the sender has a Gmail address.
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; sorted(L, key=split)
['1', '1a', '9', '55', '55a', '1000', 'abc', 'abc2']
The above solution is not quite general:
* it doesn't handle negative numbers or numbers with a decimal point;
* it doesn't handle the empty string in any meaningful way;
* in practice, you may or may not want to ignore leading whitespace,
or trailing whitespace after the number part;
* there's a subtle bug if a string contains a very large numeric prefix,
finding and fixing that is left as an exercise.
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mbda a, b: cmp(abs(a), abs(b)))
...
time taken: 63.579679 seconds
The Timer() context manager used can be found here:
http://code.activestate.com/recipes/577896
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On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 11:53:06 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On the contrary. If you are using cmp with sort, your sorts are slow,
>> and you should upgrade to using a key function as soon as possible.
>>
nd
especially C, you're not a real programmer. Real programmers use modern,
advanced languages like D, Erlang, Go or Haskell.
[1] "Ancient" is a frame of mind, not a chronological state.
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and constantly
allocating and de-allocating memory? Or a tuple? Same again. Some sort of
object has to be created.
And I have no idea what you are talking about "twice over". What
"repetitive method which computers dynamic values"?
In any case, I return to my comment earlier in thi
ocumentation per method? As far as I'm concerned that's
> not a smell, that's a stink.
Depends on the method. For some, 20 lines is 18 lines too many. For
others, that's 80 lines too few.
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lity issues, policies, and
design decisions. Frequently there are (mis-)features that we simply
have to live with, for good or ill.
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for email and news,
and Google requires you to sign in just to read the archives, which in
my opinion is morally indefensible.
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ng attention. You probably would have got some answers,
even if they were only "take it to a specialist PyGTK mailing list".
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rested? Read more here:
If you ask a question here, please keep the discussion here, don't split
it to your personal blog.
Tell us your requirements in more detail, and we will try to help you.
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ines remains None:
py> f = open('test.txt')
py> f.newlines
py> f.readlines()
['a\n', 'b\n', 'c\n', 'd\n']
py> f.newlines
('\r', '\n', '\r\n')
py> sys.stdin.newlines is None
True
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laced into a single
module when the code is related. But in my opinion, you should not split
a logical single unit of code, a module of related code, into separate
files just because it is "too big" until it is at least as large as
decimal.py.
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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 01:06:45 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> 100 lines is approximately and a half pages using a 10pt font size
> (depending on the font and the platform, of course).
Crap. I meant approx *one* and a half pages.
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hese methods in their own file, grouped nicely in sub-directories.
Ewww. Ewww ewww ewww ewww. Just reading about it makes me feel dirty.
Seriously. That means any time you want to jump back and forth from one
method to another method OF THE SAME CLASS, you have to change files.
Yuck.
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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 10:24:15 -0400, Dave Angel wrote:
> For the DOS world, real programmers have written a "complete" *.com
> program using only echo.
Echo? Wimps. Real programmers write their code directly on the surface of
the hard drive using only a magnetised needle.
--
s.set_default(s, s)
to ensure you are always working with a single string object for each
unique value. In some applications that will save time at the expense of
space.
And there is no need to write "is" instead of "==", because string
equality already optimizes the "strings are identical" case. By using ==,
you don't get into bad habits, you defend against the odd un-interned
string sneaking in, and you still have high speed equality tests.
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This has been discussed before: you don't need to compare very many
> characters to conclude that strings are unequal (if I remember correctly
> you were part of that discussion).
On average. Worst case, you have to look at every character.
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On Sat, 03 Nov 2012 22:19:19 -0700, Aahz wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Steven
> D'Aprano wrote:
>>On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 04:20:20 -0700, Jason Benjamin wrote:
>>>
>>> Anybody know of the appropriate place to
e any of that.
> For all you know, bit.ly records the ip address of each click.
You use gmane to post here. How do you know that they aren't recording
your IP address? If they are, what are they going to do with it? What
nefarious use do you think people are going to do with your IP address?
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then typed Ctrl-J to get a newline.
[steve@ando temp]$ ls
foo?bar
[steve@ando temp]$ python -c "import os
> for nm in os.listdir('.'): print repr(nm)"
'foo\nbar'
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s, then you need
something else to be an argument separator. Or you need argument
delimiters. Or strings need to be quoted. Programming languages do these
things because they are designed to be correct. Shell do not because they
are designed for lazy users and merely aim to be "good enough".
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cts. People
will make a 2D array like so:
[[0]*5]*10
and it will work. Then they'll write this:
[{}]*5
and wonder why it doesn't work the way they expect. Consistency is *much*
more valuable than ad hoc DWIM semantics. Languages that try to Do What I
Mean somehow end up Doing What Somebody Else Meant, But Not Me.
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; for the same effect.
Well, I learned something new about bash.
On the other hand, the Ctrl-Q next-char-is-literal trick works for
entering control characters that otherwise don't have a key on the
keyboard.
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ated, and as always, the fact that everything is text in
bash means it is way harder than it needs to be to use rich, modern data
structures.
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I can confirm that the same
behaviour occurs in Python 2.7 on Linux.
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On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 23:08:11 +, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 06 Nov 2012 17:16:44 +, Prasad, Ramit wrote:
>>
>> >> To enter the newline, I typed Ctrl-Q to tell bash to treat the next
>> >> character as
hey copied?
What about mutable objects which are uncopyable, like file objects?
> Every time someone passes a list to a function, they *know* that the
> list is passed by value -- and the elements are passed by reference.
And there goes the last of your credibility. *You* might "know" this, but
that doesn't make it so.
Python does not use either call-by-value or call-by-reference, and it
certainly doesn't use different calling conventions for different
arguments or parts of arguments. Everything is passed using the same
calling convention. Start here:
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/tutor/2010-December/080505.html
> People in Python are USED to lists being "the" way to weird behavior
> that other languages don't do.
Python's calling behaviour is identical to that used by languages
including Java (excluding unboxed primitives) and Ruby, to mention only
two.
You're starting to shout and yell, so perhaps it's best if I finish this
here.
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by object reference
- call by object
- call by value, where "values" are references
(according to the Java community)
- call by reference, where "references" refer to objects, not variables
(according to the Ruby community)
- reference semantics
Anything else?
http://en.wik
On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 18:52:16 +1300, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> The downside is that if spaces are not argument separators, then you
>> need something else to be an argument separator. Or you need argument
>> delimiters. Or strings need to be quoted
y are old, venerable terms dating back to Algol and possibly even
older. All the way back to Fortran perhaps?
> What about binding in general, eg "x = y"? Does it make sense to still
> call it "call by ..."?
Sure, why not? The person who prepares beef tartare or sushimi
act copy and paste of the error, or
have you edited it or reconstructed it? Because it seems to me that if
task.subject is a unicode string, as it appears to be, calling print on
it should succeed:
py> s = u'ABC\u2013DEF'
py> print s
ABC–DEF
What does type(task.subject) return?
--
Steven
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On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 10:14:35 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 5:35 AM, anatoly techtonik
> wrote:
>> I thought of sys.py3k check ...
Chris, you regularly reply to the wrong mailing list, and you've just
done it again. This is not python-ideas.
--
ot;pass by foo", but nobody has been able to
explain the difference (if any) to me. When you CALL a function, you PASS
values to it. Hence the two terms are effectively synonyms, and both
refer to the evaluation strategy when binding arguments to parameters.
If you believe that is incorrect,
ss by ..." when
talking about binding arguments to formal parameters. His objection to
"call by ..." is that it doesn't make it clear that the evaluation rules
apply to simple binding/assignment as well as calling functions.
--
Steven
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m yes?
The programmer has to remember Python's execution model in order to
correctly predict what Python will do. What's your point?
> A single exception exists;
There is no such exception in Python. Python always uses the same
argument passing (parameter binding) semantics.
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Steven
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gh to treat as a file
pass
That means that you can also use io.StringIO objects as pseudo-files too.
--
Steven
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ot;, but doesn't say what the purpose of the package is: core
features of *what*? And the examples.rst file doesn't show any examples.
https://bitbucket.org/akorn/wheezy.core/src/ca5b902e9605/doc/examples.rst
--
Steven
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the same interface:
IFoo.bar # returns a computed property
Foo.bar() # calls a method
Since the interfaces are different, duck-typing will fail. It will
actually fail in a potentially nasty way:
x = Foo.bar # doesn't raise an exception, gives the method object
# ... much later
do_someth
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