On Fri, 02 May 2014 19:01:44 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> ... even *Americans* cannot represent all their common characters in
>> ASCII, let alone specialised characters from mathematics, science, the
>&g
On Fri, 02 May 2014 03:39:34 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Friday, May 2, 2014 2:15:41 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 May 2014 19:02:48 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> > - Worst of all what we
>> > *dont* see -- how many others dont see what we see
, x1 = 1, 2
If you know your victim is reading source code in Ariel font, "rn" and
"m" are virtually indistinguishable except at very large sizes.
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On Sat, 03 May 2014 02:02:32 +, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Fri, 02 May 2014 17:58:51 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
>> I am confused about the tone however: You think this
>>
>>>>> (fine, fine) = (1,2) # and no issue about it
>>
>> is fin
explicit class as its first argument.
[end quote]
I'm not entirely sure what he means by "upcalls", but I believe it means
to call the method further up (that is, closer to the base) of the
inheritance tree.
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he saving of a few million tonnes, I think that would be
well worth it.
Of course, Bali happens to be one of the premier holiday destinations in
the world. Presumably that's completely a coincidence...
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On Sun, 04 May 2014 11:21:53 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> I'm not entirely sure what he means by "upcalls", but I believe it
>> means to call the method further up (that is, closer to the base) of
>> the inheritance tree.
>
&
On Sun, 04 May 2014 20:03:35 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> If it were a class method, you would call it by MyBaseClass.__new__()
>> rather than explicitly providing the cls argument.
>
> But that wouldn't be any good, because the base
n't know the pathname of the file until you have extracted the
version number as a string.
path = "/var/lib/postgresql/%s/main/data"
os.unlink(path % pgversion)
will probably do what you want. Pass-by-reference doesn't come into this.
If this is not what you mean, please explain in more detail.
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s() return the actual message header list, or a copy?
Because if it returns the list itself, you can just insert directly into
the list using the insert method.
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ic post myself,
and I'm not obsessive about these things, but there comes a time in every
off-topic thread where the right thing to do is to label it off-topic.
And this thread has long passed that time!
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It's Javascript, which is barely one step up from PHP regarding
consistency. It could mean "constant" for all I know :-)
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ce, and Java
programmers swearing that Java does pass by value, for *exactly* the same
behaviour that Python has.
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e like it. Hence we apply
lossy compression to the concepts to get short names:
C uses ints;
Python uses ints
and the distinction between the two is lost.
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German movie, and I
wonder whether you're thinking of the "mile high club", but other than
that, I'm lost.
In any case, O doubt that Jessica is asking in a figurative sense.
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f which the compiler
puts a value, then Python has no variables.
* If you think of id(x) as the identity of the *name* "x" rather
than the identity of the object bound to "x", that is, if you
think of id(x) as like a pointer to x, then you are mistaken.
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packing and unpacking the values as needed.
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is
only available at runtime (e.g. the assignment "x := 1;" is compiled to
the equivalent of "look up x and bind the value 1 to it"). In Python,
lookups occur at runtime, not compile time.
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but this behaviour?
I note also that one may still have a name-binding model with copy-on-
assign semantics. For example, one might add syntactic sugar to a Python-
like language such that:
spam = eggs
is a name binding, and
spam := eggs
makes a copy of eggs before binding.
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On Thu, 08 May 2014 12:09:21 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:27 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> If I have understood correctly, and I welcome confirmation or
>> correction, one can have any combination of:
>>
>> * dynamic typing and
;, what are you splitting and testing? It may also help if you
show some Python 2.7 code that works, and what happens in 3.3.
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ons.
The fact that you seem to believe that *memory locations* are somehow
fundamental to computing goes to show just how pernicious the concept is.
> (BTW, in lambda calculus and predicate logic, the names cannot be
> rebound, but they are still called variables.)
>
>
> Marko
[1] Not actually forced, of course, because rejecting the claim as
"obviously wrong" without thought is possible.
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t; Post-It note with a name to a box with the object's state, meaning
> there's no way of copying any pointer, and it's still Python.
Yes, exactly.
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On Thu, 08 May 2014 23:46:31 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:18 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> So... although I don't go quite so far as Ben in thinking that using
>> the term "variable" in describing Python is harmful, I will
t
a fixed location" model. Of those, Algol, Pascal and Fortran are either
obsolete or legacy, and C is by far the most well-known by people here.
(For some reason, few people seem to migrate from VB to Python.) Hence,
"C-like".
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on C, "variable" means what C does.
The whole point is not that "name binding" somehow causes the reader to
intuit the differences between early and late binding, or between boxes
in fixed memory locations and name:value pairs in a namespace, but that
it *opens their mind*
lists ARE objects. All values in Python are objects.
> it behaves like calling by reference:
It certainly does not. The best you can say is that mutation operations
can, under some circumstances, mimic some of the effects of call by
reference. For example, instead of using call by reference to get an
output parameter, like Pascal uses, you can pass an object and mutate the
object in place so that the caller sees the mutation.
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On Thu, 08 May 2014 21:02:36 -0400, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On 08 May 2014 16:04:51 GMT, Steven D'Aprano
> declaimed the following:
>
>>Personally, I think that trying to be general and talk about "many other
>>languages" is a failing strategy. Bette
e. As for multiple underscores like in__ in___ in
that's just too hideous for words.
> And I also prefer pep8 method names as well, on_left_dclick1, etc. But
> when the underlying library doesn't follow pep8, then I guess it does
> not matter (self.Bind
e power of regexes, unload them on something
that makes it worthwhile. Replacing a constant, fixed string with another
constant, fixed string does not require a regex.
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encode('utf-16be')
b'\x00a\x00a\x00a\x00a \x12\x00a\x00a\x00a\x00a'
py> u'\u2012'.encode('utf-16le')
b'a\x00a\x00a\x00a\x00\x12 a\x00a\x00a\x00a\x00'
or something else.
You're on *extremely* thin ice here.
If you *must* do this,
whether micro code is an abstraction,
that's fine, you can add a layer or two if you wish. But we're not far
from *actual electric currents in an actual physical device*, at which
point we're now talking about a concrete, physical description of the
process, not an abstraction.
disprove that
statement:
py> x = [1, 2, 3] # A structured object
py> type(x) # that has a type
> and you can't pass references to them.
That at least you have got right.
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On Fri, 09 May 2014 17:34:17 -0500, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 5/7/14 8:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>> In almost every other language you know A and B each "contain" by
>>> reference (and almost always by static type) macTruck. But NOT python.
>>
>
On Fri, 09 May 2014 13:10:41 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Today we routinely call horseless carriages "cars", and nobody would
>> blink if I pointed at a Prius or a Ford Explorer and said "that's not a
>> carriage, it&#x
t there's no way to pass variables to functions, embed them in lists,
etc. The closest we can do is pass a string, the name of the variable,
and a namespace:
foo('spam', namespace)
To be truly first class, we ought to be able to write something like this:
x = 23
alist = [1, 2, x]
alist[2] = 42
assert x == 42
but we cannot.
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On Sat, 10 May 2014 17:10:29 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Gregory Ewing
> wrote:
>> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>>
>>> some_function(x, y+1)[key].attribute[num](arg)[spam or eggs] = 42
>>>
>>> I'
On Sat, 10 May 2014 17:21:56 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Sat, 10 May 2014 12:33:28 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>> 1) Passing them as parameters. You can pass a pointer to a variable,
>>> which
Not even local variables, since that's an implementation detail which
the language takes pains to hide from the caller. The abstraction leaks a
bit, but not much.)
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s://pypi.python.org/pypi/future
If so, then I believe the library is buggy and you should report it to
the Centos package maintainer. You might also manually install a more
recent version of future.
Decimal.from_float was only added in 2.7, it is not available in 2.6.
https://docs.python
r
everything else search the chain nonlocals:globals:builtins.
Name bindings (assignments, del, imports) for locals write only to the
local scope. For globals they write only to the global scope and for
nonlocals they write to the nearest enclosing nonlocal scope that already
defines that variable.
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n and Jython use an
ordinary dict for local variable namespaces, just like globals. Consider
this example from Jython:
>>> spam =
>>> def modify(namespace):
... namespace['spam'] = 42
...
>>> def demo():
... modify(locals())
... spam = spam
... return spam
...
>>> demo()
42
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On Sun, 11 May 2014 13:30:03 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, May 11, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> But that is an implementation detail. IronPython and Jython use an
>> ordinary dict for local variable namespaces, just like globals.
>> Cons
If you don't have both pieces, you don't have a Python
> variable.
+1
Well said.
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ript ...) Some of them, like
Haskell, influence other languages without ever being popular themselves.
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Selling physical product is not the only way to make money from software,
and in fact, most programmers are not paid to write software for sale.
They are paid to write in-house applications which are never distributed
outside of the company paying for their labour.
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I can turn that LOAD_FAST into a LOAD_GLOBAL, which then gives
behaviour just like Lua:
spam (the local variable) = spam (the global variable)
Of course, this isn't a feature of Python the language. But with
sufficient byte-code hacking skills, it is possible.
> I am curious, though, what other python's do with respect to function
> variables.
As far as I know, Jython and IronPython store them in a dict namespace,
just like globals. See my previous responses to Chris.
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am
print ("spam" in globals()) # prints False
print (spam) # raises NameError
The same applies to locals. Whether a slot is pre-allocated or not, the
variable doesn't exist until there is a value bound to the name.
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On Sun, 11 May 2014 11:26:41 +0300, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>> Rustom Mody:
>>
>> > On Saturday, May 10, 2014 2:39:31 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Personally, I don't imagine that there ever
its of my vision and touch.
(I haven't tried measuring them with a micrometer, or doing chemical
analysis of the material they are made of.)
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he softness of your fingers...) and maybe
a couple of bells and whistles (e.g. can you cut on angles?). It's not
within an order of magnitude of the complexity of a programming language.
A better comparison would be with one of these:
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-are-cnc-mac
On Mon, 12 May 2014 00:51:01 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 2014-05-12 00:15, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 May 2014 14:43:19 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>>> Speaking of which, here's a trivia question. Without looking at your
>>> keyboard, describe how the &q
On Mon, 12 May 2014 01:27:17 +0100, Mark Lawrence wrote:
> On 12/05/2014 00:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> Cars are standardized -- there are basically two types, manuals and
>> automatics.
>>
>>
> Sadly they can still go wrong due to modern engineer
It would all be so simple.
Reading Armin's post, I think that all that is needed to simplify his
Python 3 version is:
- have a bytes version of sys.argv (bargv? argvb?) and read
the file names from that;
- have a simple way to write bytes to stdout and stderr.
Most programs won't
using self-
modifying code are virus writers, and the viruses they create are
notorious for being buggy.
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ng overly complicated.
>
> Does this work? I have another one coming for args, similar, if this
> works... comments appreciated. thanks.
I tried to run your code, but every line is quoted with a > which causes
a syntax error. Was there a reason you quoted the snippet?
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On Tue, 13 May 2014 15:56:50 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 3:48 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> Self-modifying code is a nightmare inside the head of a Lovecraftian
>> horror. There's a reason why almost the only people still using self-
Py3 supports both
> interpretations seemingly throughout:
>
>open(b"/bin/ls")vsopen("/bin/ls") os.path.join(b"a", b"b")
>vs os.path.join("a", "b")
Because it has to, otherwise there will be files that are unreachable on
one platform or another.
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those other people.
True, true.
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many web/mailing-list fora.
And smart phones.
[...]
> PS.
> Last rule of python list: Always listen to Peter Otten.
Yes. Peter is a treasure to the community, not just for his knowledge but
for his patience and friendliness.
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On Mon, 12 May 2014 10:35:53 -0700, scottcabit wrote:
> On Friday, May 9, 2014 8:12:57 PM UTC-4, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> Good:
>>
>>
>>
>> fStr = re.sub(b'‒', b'-', fStr)
>>
>>
> Doesn't work...the
On Tue, 13 May 2014 14:42:51 +, alister wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2014 13:51:20 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>
>> On 2014-05-13, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2014 07:20:34 -0400, Roy Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>> ASCII *is* all I nee
r itself*
setting the attribute, the better way is
a_new_name = MyError
or even
from module.foo import MyError as a_new_name
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On Tue, 13 May 2014 22:57:16 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Producing an effective JIT for Python seems like a formidable challenge
> but not impossible in principle.
Or in practice.
http://pypy.org/
And it's predecessor: http://psyco.sourceforge.net/
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me is how hard that is. Surely there's a simpler way to
open stdin and stdout in binary mode? If not, there ought to be.
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On Wed, 14 May 2014 07:35:35 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> On Tue, 13 May 2014 22:57:16 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
>>> Producing an effective JIT for Python seems like a formidable
>>> challenge but not impossible in pr
ows the actual method and wraps the
exception in another object. More likely, I think you'll find that the
original MyError doesn't inherit from Exception.
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ion in 6th column, Comment is a C in 1st column, 7-72 for code
> (ALONG WITH ALL CAPS CODE)?
Nope. Because the main driving force for 79 characters is not technology
but human reading.
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hardware, usability, and power. In my
opinion, people will look back at the first decade of the 21st century as
the golden age of personal computing.
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um readability for a range of
typical text, including code. That's likely to be around 80 characters,
which fits nicely with the historical standard. Reducing that to 80-1=79
means you're protected from "off-by-one" errors in either your counting
or your editor.
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angle the
presentation while keeping the semantics the same. You're inadvertently
proposing the same thing (albeit to a lesser degree).
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ance to gather some more data from the serial port.
Ultimately, that's the problem: you're trying to process data faster than
in can be collected.
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aviour, and turning it into an absurd
statement of a "fundamental" (your word) which applies to every single
human being on earth.
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immediately into the public domain.
It is true that under the Mickey Mouse Copyright Grab Act[1] of , every time Mickey Mouse is about to reach the end of
copyright, Congress retroactively extends copyright terms for another few
decades, but that's another story.
[1] Not the real name
On Sat, 17 May 2014 09:57:06 +0100, Robert Kern wrote:
> On 2014-05-17 02:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 May 2014 14:46:23 +, Grant Edwards wrote:
>>
>>> At least in the US, there doesn't seem to be such a thing as "placing
>>> a wor
for the high
> variability in how different jurisdictions around the world treat their
> own public domains.
Yes to all that.
>http://creativecommons.org/about/cc0
>http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0_FAQ
>
> Note how they distinguish the CC0 Waiver from their Pu
Perl
too inconsistent, with far too many special cases and tricks, and not
enough of a consistent design. It's not as bad as PHP, but it gives me
the impression of a language where the only design principle is "Oh,
that looks cool. Hand me the welding iron, and I'll wel
s fine. He correctly quotes JMF stating
"Voilà" (that's LATIN SMALL LETTER A WITH GRAVE), and Ethan's post
correctly gives an encoding header:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
(although, boo to Thunderbird for using a legacy encoding instead of
UTF-8)
he says it does, that's valuable. Python 2.7 will be
part of the Python ecosystem until at least 2022. Furthermore, adapting
an existing Python2 to Go compiler to work with Python3 will be much
easier than writing one from scratch.
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s are attributes of the class, not the instance. Like all class
attributes, you can retrieve them by doing a lookup on the instance, you
can shadow them by storing an attribute of the same name on the instance,
but you cannot rebind or delete them directly on the instance, since they
aren't on the instance.
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for the purpose of a higher cause.
In Batman's case that higher cause is justice and the good of Gotham
City. What's your higher cause?
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in to a single course
of action even more tightly than if you had more.
At least that's the impression that you have given.
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an arrange matters so that you never need to MD5 hash a
string twice.
Is my guess closer to the actuality than yours? I don't know. I haven't
measured it either. But I know that Python is a high-level language with
lots of high-level data structures like dicts which trade-off time and
memory for programmer convenience, and that I'd want to see some real
benchmarks proving that my application was too slow before giving up that
convenience with a complicated strategy like this.
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all of this from a single tab, using the screen
command to manage virtual tabs. I am not one of those people. For the
same reason, I prefer GUI editors over emacs or vim.
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web.
Our non-profit is a big user and just released our mobile responsive
design - http://forums.e-democracy.org We are looking to collaborate
with other orgs and developers. Note:
http://e-democracy.org/groupserver
Cheers,
Steven Clift
E-Democracy.org
ᐧ
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On Wed, 28 May 2014 11:39:23 -0500, Mark H Harris wrote:
> On 5/28/14 2:44 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Friday, January 19, 2001 1:22:23 AM UTC+5:30, Rolander, Dan wrote:
>>> What is the best way to run a python script from within the
.
>>> interpre
the main Linux distros start using Python 3 as their system
Python, there will be a sudden rush of people to Python 3;
- about six months before Python 2 drops out of free support, there will
be a sudden flood of panicky cries for help from people who didn't bother
making a *single* step towards migration over the previous ten years, and
suddenly realise that they need to migrate yesterday.
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is
guaranteed to return the same sequence of values,
random.choice is not);
- removal of obsolete modules like bastion and rotor.
Any and all of these things can break code that relies on them.
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Steven
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Ah, I wasn't referring to Google Groups newsgroup/usenet connection,
but if one wanted to host open source based online groups themselves
that are similar to the web experience with Google Groups overall.
While folks who just want a mailing list are well served by Mailman,
Sympa, and others ... fo
o cutting edge.
[1] Unladen Swallow was not a failure. It's just that expectations were
so high ("OMG OMG Google is making a Python compiler this will be more
powerful than the Death Star and faster than time travel!!!1!") that it
couldn't help but be a disappointment.
[
by prefixing
them with ! and has an entire subsystem of user-configurable "magic"
commands using % prefix.
(By the way, ; won't work for a Python shell, because ;spam already is
valid Python syntax: it's an empty statement followed by the statement
spam, separated by a semicol
On Fri, 30 May 2014 10:46:34 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> (By the way, ; won't work for a Python shell, because ;spam already is
>> valid Python syntax: it's an empty statement followed by the
On Fri, 30 May 2014 12:04:27 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 May 2014 10:46:34 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Steven D'Aprano
>>> wrot
On Fri, 30 May 2014 17:19:00 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 4:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>>> It's on par with creating a file with a name beginning with a hyphen,
>>> and then fiddling around with various commands as you try to
>&
On Fri, 30 May 2014 21:46:55 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 9:27 PM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> This is why I'm so adamant that, while REPLs may be permitted to
>> introduce *new* syntax which is otherwise illegal to the Python parser,
>&g
ce with 2.7, you will be more than capable of dealing with the
differences with version 3. They are not different languages, think of
them as slightly different dialects of the same language, like UK and
South African English.
--
Steven D'Aprano
http://import-that.dreamwidth.org/
-
r semantics is simply false.
"with non-confusing error handling" -- How is Python 3's error handling
confusing? It's the same error handling as Python 2. Where is the
confusion?
TL;DR: Anatoly's blog post is long on disappointment and short on actual
content. It feels to me that we could summarise his post as:
I don't know what I want, I won't recognise it even if I saw
it, but Python 3 isn't it. I blame others for not living up
to my expectations for features I cannot describe and were
never promised.
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Steven
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g the
answers given last time will be useful. After you have read those dozen
or so answers, please come back with any further questions. Here's the
link again:
http://code.activestate.com/lists/python-list/60/
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Steven
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e .com with .соm.
To put it another way:
py> аррlе = 23
py> apple = 42
py> assert аррlе == apple
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
AssertionError
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