On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 09:17:20 +0200, Christian Gollwitzer wrote:
> Am 04.07.18 um 17:31 schrieb Steven D'Aprano:
>> On Wed, 04 Jul 2018 13:48:26 +0100, Bart wrote:
>>
>>> Presumably one type hint applies for the whole scope of the variable,
>>> not just the
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:59:05 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> Not everything in Python uses a strict left-to-right reading order.
>> Just like English really.
>
> Well, English is read left to right, but it doesn't always mean thi
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 13:54:28 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> On 05-07-18 11:59, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 17:34:55 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Indeed, that's often the best way, except for the redundant type
>>>&g
dency of
pip, just because it happens to be a dependency of pip? That would be too
sensible.
sudo apt install python3-setuptools
fixed the issue. But now I want to go out and kick puppies.
/rant
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Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I'
tty printer to the end od
the line, instead of the beginning, to reduce the emphasis on it". And
then I thought, yes I can!" and re-wrote the pretty printer to use the
__ror__ method instead:
>>> func(1) | _ppr
{'a': 1, 'b': 2, 'c': 3}
I
ency
(without necessarily achieving it) than for any other single
reason — including blind stupidity. -- W.A. Wulf
The Rules of Optimization are simple. Rule 1: Don’t do it.
Rule 2 (for experts only): Don’t do it yet.
-- Michael A. Jackson, "Principles of Program Design"
s. And its true, I'm
entirely clueless how to identify poisonous mushrooms from edible ones.
However will I survive?
Nor do I know how to smelt copper, or tan leather using nothing but dung,
or perform brain surgery. I guess civilization is about to collapse.
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Steven D'Aprano
&
/stable/
Bugs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
Origin: Ubuntu
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:31:50 +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 05Jul2018 17:57, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>>I have a function which returns a dict, and I want to use doctest to
>>ensure the documentation is correct. So I write a bunch of doctests:
>>
>>def
;""
Hmmm it still has the disadvantage of putting the emphasis on the
sorted() function instead of the function being doctested, and obscuring
the fact that it returns a dict. But I actually like that.
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 11:58:08 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:35 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 03:47:55 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
>>
>>> What's the output of:
>>>
>>> $ apt-cache show pytho
On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 18:40:11 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
> On 07/05/18 18:25, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 11:27:09 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Take a village of people. They live mostly on wild berries.
>> Because of course a community of people li
nfer, deduct, derive]
2: draw from specific cases for more general cases [syn:
generalize, generalise, extrapolate, infer]
3: conclude by reasoning; in logic [syn: deduce, infer]
> Unless you mean "A probable guess" by interfere.
No.
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ne remember this? My google-fu is failing me.
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 14:02:28 +0100, Bart wrote:
> On 06/07/2018 13:43, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> I think it might have been on this list, or possibly one of
>> Python-Ideas or Python-Dev.
>>
>> Somebody gave a quote about dynamic typing, along the lines of
>&g
Check to Time Of Use bug where some other thread could
conceivably insert 'c' into the dict between the check and the insertion.
How do I do a thread-safe insertion if, and only if, the key isn't
already there?
Thanks in advance,
--
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"Ever since I
On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 02:51:41 +0900, INADA Naoki wrote:
> D.setdefault('c', None)
Oh that's clever!
Thanks!
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rk for you:
https://www.vettimes.co.uk/app/uploads/wp-post-to-pdf-enhanced-cache/1/a-dirty-job-but-not-to-be-sniffed-at.pdf
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On Fri, 06 Jul 2018 09:42:09 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> On 06-07-18 08:17, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Thu, 05 Jul 2018 16:09:52 +0200, Antoon Pardon wrote:
>>
>>>> This is not an innovation of Mypy. It's how type inference is
>>>> supposed
On Sat, 07 Jul 2018 11:38:37 +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano writes:
>
>> Somebody gave a quote about dynamic typing, along the lines of
>>
>> "Just because a language allows a lot of dynamic features, doesn't mean
>> people's code
= 1 # thread 2
assert i == 3
Executing statements out of order is impossible, even in threaded code.
Redefining the meaning of the integer literal 1 is impossible (ignoring
unsupported shenanigans with ctypes). Monkey-patching the int __iadd__
method is impossible. So there is no coherent way to
2 and have a result of 3, rather than 2 or 4.
Some people, when confronted with a problem, say, "I know, I'll use
threads". Nothhtwo probw ey ave lems.
> But you're absolutely right that there are only a small handful of
> plausible results, even with threading
hough. Any mutable object shared between two
threads is potentially a risk. Globals are just the most obvious example.
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.
That's irrelevant. A legal Python does not inherit the quirks of the
underlying implementation -- it must still follow the rules of the
language, or it isn't Python. Java is statically typed, with machine
ints, Python is dynamically typed, with no machine ints.
Relevant:
http://
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:11:58 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>> Changing implementations from one which is thread safe to one which is
>> not can break people's code, and shouldn't be done on a whim.
>> Especially since such breakage could be
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 19:35:55 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>> On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:11:58 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> PS My example with "impossible" being the result of a racy integer
>>> operation is of course unlikely but coul
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 16:37:11 +0100, MRAB wrote:
> On 2018-07-08 14:38, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 14:11:58 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>
> [snip]
>>> More importantly, this loop may never finish:
>>>
>>> # Init
atical errors.
Like writing "make your homeworks" for "do your homework"... *wink*
> Anyways, I don't think anyone here may want to make your homeworks for
> you...
Prafull is not asking for us to do his or her homework, but for help with
basic syntax. That&#x
te it directly in your message.
Thank you.
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ing the actual errors you are getting, I'm just guessing
what the problem is.
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nsion (expr for x in values)
a.k.a. generator expression
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END_FINALLY
>> 44 LOAD_CONST 0 (None)
47 RETURN_VALUE
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Hey Rick, if you're reading this, now that Guido has resigned, this is
your opportunity to declare yourself as the true Heir and take over as
BDFL.
*runs and hides*
Sorry-sometimes-I-can't-help-myself-I-would-have-deleted-this-post-but-I-
already-hit-send-ly y'rs,
--
k door through Google's
firewalls and security, and now have total control over their entire
network of tens of thousands of computers around the world; or
2) it's an Easter egg and coding challenge.
My money is on number 1.
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"Ever since I learned
om his comments) the levels of abuse he (probably)
received privately and on social media after his announcement was made.
The downside of being the visible face of a popular language while having
a publicly visible email address.
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Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned abou
ing, module=__name__)
Am I doing it right?
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d major disasters. I've been using it since 1973.
Doesn't Python have the same?"
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with the community here, or the fact that he's
been kill-filed by probably half the regulars here.
But nevertheless you felt qualified to state an opinion.
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"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
--
f emails, posts, tweets and other
messages telling Guido off for getting it idiotically wrong *really*
sounds like cultists taking the words of their leader as divine truth. /s
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tal relationships, shunning is one of the
cruelest and most toxic ways to deal with conflict short of physical
abuse, but we've made it the norm on the internet. If somebody says
something you don't like, block them, ignore them silently, don't respond
to their messages, even he
f being trolls
with no provocation. (I think Mark is mistaken, in this case, but I
understand his sentiments.)
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On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 17:48:15 -0700, dbd wrote:
> On Friday, July 13, 2018 at 4:59:06 PM UTC-7, Steven D'Aprano wrote: ...
>> I think that Marko sometimes likes to stir the ants nest by looking
>> down at the rest of us and painting himself as the Lone Voice Of Sanity
>&g
coming in
return than if they come in, flop out their dick and start pissing all
over your favourite things.
"Why are you so unwelcoming? I'm just making a technical criticism."
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it e
e Dutch?
>>
>>And Germany is called Deutchland?
>
> The real question is why do English speakers refer to Deutschland as
> Germany.
It comes from the Roman name for the region, which they may have got from
the Gauls.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania
--
Steven D&#x
27;s probably a small percentage.
The Python community has a long and glorious history of borrowing ideas
from other languages, without slavishly following them. Neither "not
invented here" nor "never invented here".
These are not the characteristics of "us-versus-them
equires a URL to be an str object.
That's because URLs are fundamentally text strings.
Quick quiz: which of the following are real URLs?
(a) http://правительство.рф
(b) http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή
(c) http://실례.테스트
(d) All of the above.
https://uxmag.com/articles/a-url-in-any-language
> Well, duh. It also doesn't accept a list of floats, just because you
> COULD represent a text string that way.
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 22:54:52 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Ah, that's called "shunning," isn't it?
No, shunning is when people simply stop responding to those they don't
approve of, turn their back on them in the street, and refuse to
acknowledge their existe
and get pi)
then I guess Go got it right.
> That's the ten-billion-dollar question, isn't it?!
No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can stick
their head in the sand and take seriously the position that Latin-1 (let
alone ASCII) is enough for text str
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:39:40 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> Of course we have no idea what Marko's software is, or what it is
>> doing,
>
> Correct, you don't, but the link Paul Rubin posted gives you an idea:
>
>Pyt
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 14:17:51 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:43:14 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> Paul Rubin :
>>>> I don't think Go is the answer either, but it probably got strings
>>>> r
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 11:22:11 -0700, James Lee wrote:
> On 7/15/2018 3:43 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>>
>> No. The real ten billion dollar question is how people in 2018 can
>> stick their head in the sand and take seriously the position that
>> Latin-1 (let alone A
ming tasks. For a
> great deal more, it's absolutely necessary. That why I said a "smart"
> language would make it easy to turn on and off.
You actually said that I18N features should be able to be turned on and
off. Unicode and I18N are unrelated.
--
Steven D&
ate my point with Python code since Python won't let me deal with
> strings without also dealing with Unicode.
Nonsense.
b"Look ma, a Python 2 style ASCII string."
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Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere.&q
On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 17:39:55 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
> On 07/15/18 17:18, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Jul 2018 16:08:15 -0700, Jim Lee wrote:
>>
>>> Python3 is intrinsically tied to Unicode for string handling.
>>> Therefore, the Python programmer
et to the crux of the matter. It isn't really the technical
issues of Unicode that annoy you. It is the loss of privilege that you,
as an ASCII user, no longer get to dismiss 90% of the world as beneath
your notice.
Nice.
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xplain:
>
> Ask: how was your day
> record answer in voice translate it via google ask new question
Sorry, I don't understand this.
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 14:17:35 +, Dan Sommers wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 10:39:49 +0000, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>
>> ... people who think that if ISO-8859-7 was good enough for Jesus ...
>
> It may have been good enough for his disciples, but Jesus spoke Aramaic.
The
label your output in Khmer, Hiragana and Gujarati if you don't want to.
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roups of users who share
a single character set, even ASCII. My application might display "Rubbish
Bin" in the UK and Australia and "Trash Can" in the USA.
If you think that Unicode is about internationalization, you are
labouring under serious misapprehensions about
ebody who insists
that because Python's float data type doesn't support full CAS (computer
algebra system) and theorem prover, its useless and a step backwards and
we should abandon IEEE-754 float semantics and let users implement their
own floating point maths using nothing but fixed
tter "V", although that's non-standard.
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 13:11:23 -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On Jul 16, 2018, at 12:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 00:28:39 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>>
>>> if your new system used Python3's UTF-32 stri
and in for any string handling on ASCII
over
print("Hello World!")
which works just as well if you control the data you are working with and
know that it is pure ASCII.
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so is just special pleading. And the thing about special pleading
is that we're not obliged to accept it. Plead as much as you like, the
answer is still no.
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ave words for that. There's no statute of limitation for murder,
but surely "being obnoxious on the internet" ought to come with a fairly
short period of forgiveness.
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thon 3000'. Call it 'a mythical
> Python 4000', if you must use such a term.
I prefer to say Python 5000, to make it even more clear that should such
a thing happen again, it will be a *REALLY* long time from now.
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirm
nsidered
to be a single unit of language, which some people might choose to call a
character. (But not a single letter, naturally.) If you don't like that
example, "qu" is probably a better one: aside from acronyms and loan
words, no modern English word can fail to follo
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 06:15:25 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018 at 4:55 AM, Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>> There is nothing special about diacritics such that we ought to treat
>> some combinations like "Ch" (two code points = one character) as &quo
ily dealt with by a helper function.
That *is* a nice example of where byte strings in Python 3 aren't as nice
as in Python 2.
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veryone just used ASCII.
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nits, and from 1 to 4 code units per code point;
UTF-16 uses 2-byte code units (a 16-bit word), and 1 or 2 words per code
point;
UTF-32 uses 4-byte code units (a 32-bit word), and only ever a single
code unit for every code point.
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Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about
even wrong. Of course a *single* byte cannot, but a single byte is not
"UTF-8 bytes".
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On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 21:48:42 -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
>> On Jul 16, 2018, at 9:21 PM, Steven D'Aprano
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 19:02:36 -0400, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>
>>> You are defining a variable/fixed width codepoint set
On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 21:25:20 -0500, Tim Chase wrote:
> On 2018-07-17 01:08, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> In English, I think most people would prefer to use a different term
>> for whatever "sh" and "ch" represent than "character".
>
>
On Tue, 17 Jul 2018 08:26:45 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 22:51:32 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> UTF-8 bytes can only represent the first 128 code points of Unicode.
>>
>> This is DailyWTF material. Perhaps y
vert 'int' object to str implicitly
Python strings are sequences of abstract characters.
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ion in the string object, as they do now. It might even be
more compact, although a naive implementation would lose the ability to
do constant time indexing into strings.
That might be a tradeoff worth keeping, if indexing remained sufficiently
fast.
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever
-adding % support for byte strings) they will consider
them, but going back to the Python 2 misdesign is off the table.
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times deal with that sort of thing is to re-write selected
potentially-infinite loops:
while condition:
# condition may never become False
do something
to something like this:
for counter in range(1000):
if not condition: break
do something
else:
raise TooManyIterationsErr
> speaker)
In English, that would be "shop assistant". "Assist shop" would be
grammatically incorrect: it should be written as "assist the shop",
meaning "help the shop".
Relevant:
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/01/the-shallowness-of-google-translate/551570/
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On Fri, 20 Jul 2018 08:25:04 +0200, Brian Oney via Python-list wrote:
> PS: Can I twiddle bits in Python?
Yes.
These operators work on ints:
bitwise AND: &
bitwise OR: |
bitwise XOR: ^
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I&
try and expect in a 'with open' function as shown in
> the below example code .
Yes.
> (2) If I hit any other exceptions say Value-error can I catch them as
> show below
If you hit ValueError, that is almost always a bug in your code. That's
exactly the sort of thing you *shouldn't* be covering up with an except
clause unless you really know what you are doing.
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= os.path.basename(path)
print filename
# prints 'test04_Failures.log'
testcase, remaining_junk = filename.split('_', 1)
print testcase
# prints 'test04'
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nt the
process ID. Let's say it prints 12345, over in another terminal, you can
run:
kill -USR1 12345
kill -USR2 12345
to send the appropriate signals.
To do this programmatically from another Python script, use the os.kill()
function.
https://docs.python.org/3/library/signal.html
.k.a. "assignment") comes from lambda calculus;
- which has no assignment (a.k.a. "binding").
Which leads us to the conclusion that lambda calculus both has and
doesn't have binding a.k.a. assignment at the same time. Perhaps it is a
quantum phenomenon.
Are you happy with th
e. the
"variables are a named box at a fixed memory location" model) include
Algol, Pascal, Modula-3, C, C++, C#, Objective C, D, Swift, COBOL, Forth,
Ada, PL/I, Rust and many others.
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and Python are the ones that are not "common".
Indeed. Its not just older languages from the 60s and 70s with value-type
variables. Newer languages intended as systems languages, like Rust and
Go, do the same.
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Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 20:24:30 +1200, Gregory Ewing wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> So let me see if I understand your argument...
>>
>> - we should stop using the term "binding", because it means
>> nothing different from assignment;
>> -
different.
[1] What, all of them? Even those with a comp sci PhD and 40 years
programming experience in two dozen different languages?
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s on a long paper tape, and an analog computer emulating Python would
use I-have-no-idea. Clockwork? Hydraulics?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MONIAC
https://makezine.com/2012/01/24/early-russian-hydraulic-computer/
[2] Except by dropping into ctypes or some other interface to the
implementati
On Mon, 23 Jul 2018 14:39:56 +0300, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Steven D'Aprano :
>
>> Lambda calculus has the concept of a binding operator, which is
>> effectively an assignment operator: it takes a variable and a value and
>> binds the value to the variable, changi
use you have the Python 2.7 version of the netCDF4 module
installed in the Python 2.7 environment, doesn't mean it will magically
work for Python 3.6. You have to install the module for 3.6 as well.
How did you install it for Python 2.7?
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I
hese days, that is rarely what we need
now.
The usual way to check a type is:
isinstance(something, dict)
but even that should be rare. If you find yourself doing lots of type
checking, using isinstance() or type(), then you're probably writing
slow, inconvenient Python code.
s.
It is wrong (in other words, it doesn't work) because it allows non-None
objects to masquerade as None and pretend to be what they are not.
If that's your intent, then of course you may do so. But without a
comment explaining your intent, don't be surprised if more experienced
P
_thing = None
> >>> type(some_thing).__str__(some_thing)
> 'None'
>
> Equally weird, I'd say, but what the heck...
class Foo:
def __str__(self):
return 'None'
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
actual problem;
- or it is a false positive which (if unfixed) distracts
attention and encourages a blasé attitude which could
easily lead to problems in the future.
Warnings are a code smell. Avoiding warnings is a way of "working clean":
https://blog.codinghorror.com/programmer
.
And my point was that ignoring warnings is not the right approach.
Suppressing them on a case-by-case basis (if possible) is one thing, but
a blanket suppression goes to far, for the reasons I gave earlier.
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've be
ample opportunity for code to accidentally compare
bytes and text even in pure Python 3 code, e.g. comparing data read from
files reading from files which are supposed to be opened in the same
binary/text mode but aren't.
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmatio
from people who I
don't know from LinkedIn, and most of them don't even know they sent
them. I got three from you yesterday.
--
Steven D'Aprano
"Ever since I learned about confirmation bias, I've been seeing
it everywhere." -- Jon Ronson
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
cated machine-learning site, "Cross
Validated":
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/130524/which-stack-exchange-
website-for-machine-learning-and-computational-algorithms
https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/227757/where-to-ask-basic-
questions-about-machine-learning
--
Steven
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