On 22/02/2018 16:00, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 12:03:09 +0000, bartc wrote:
The idea of the Fibonacci benchmark is to test how effectively an
implementation manages large numbers of recursive function calls. Then,
fib(36) would normally involve 48,315,633 calls.
This ve
calc+v3*v3
if rec=='1':
v1, v2, v3 = v1+v2, v1, v2
return v2
fib(100) took 200ms seconds in Python 3. Printing the result about
another 1.6 seconds. I think now it's down to the efficiency of the big
integer library, as little bytecode is being exec
On 22/02/2018 14:02, Mark Lawrence wrote:
On 22/02/18 12:03, bartc wrote:
It might be a technique to bear in mind, but it is nonsensical to say
this gives a 17,000 times speed-up over the original code.
What makes you say that? I have just run all of the code as given in
the reference
On 23/02/2018 01:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 22 Feb 2018 17:53:30 +0000, bartc wrote:
The actual result is irrelevant, so long as its correct. The important
thing is those 50 million calls.
Why do you care about the 50 million calls?
Because we are interested in comparing
sign of cpython. It is a distributed project.
Is numpy a general purpose C library that can also be called from any
language that can use a C API? Or is it specific to Python?
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On 23/02/2018 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 11:17 PM, bartc wrote:
Integer pixel values
Maybe in 64 bits for the time being, but 32 certainly won't be enough.
Why, people's eyes will evolve to see quintillions of colours?
As soon as you do any sort o
rs to sort a million integers using BubbleSort! Its too
damn slow!!!"
"Why not use the built-in sort? That's fast."
"NOO I MUST USE BUBBLESORT, BECAUSE REASONS!!!1!"
*wink*
Have you ever written a benchmark in your life? If so, did it do
anything useful? Othe
nchmark.
So, what benchmark would you use instead if you wanted an idea of how
well each language dealt with it?
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On 23/02/2018 19:47, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 6:25 AM, bartc wrote:
The difference between Python and another dynamic language might be a
magnitude, yet you say it doesn't matter.
Thanks, that makes me feel much better about my own work! If a magnitude
differen
On 23/02/2018 20:12, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 7:02 AM, bartc wrote:
I don't know what point you're making here. Unless it's that no software is
worth writing unless it's done on a big scale with a huge team of people,
and is very well known.
My own p
On 24/02/2018 00:45, Dan Stromberg wrote:
On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 1:32 PM, bartc wrote:
But the difference in runtime speed between Python and other dynamic
languages, if you look at benchmarks doing actual work in the language, can
be much greater than two times, yet that doesn't appe
guage. If it doesn't, it
won't.
Benchmarks need to be honest. But Fibonacci I think can't use that
optimisation (although gcc seems to have found another way of not that
much work).
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On 24/02/2018 02:05, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 23 Feb 2018 19:25:35 +0000, bartc wrote:
Python is 10 times slower than a competitor = doesn't matter
My language is 1.5 times slower than the big boys' = matters
a great deal
As for Python's order-of-magnitude speed d
;>17)
xs ^= (xs<<43)
x = s+xcng+xs
print ("Does x= 4013566000157423768")
print (" x=",x)
start()
--
(The code performs N iterations of a random number generator. You get
the result expected, ie. x=401...768, when N is a billion.)
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On 26/02/2018 11:40, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 10:13 PM, bartc wrote:
Below is the first draft of a Python port of a program to do with random
numbers. (Ported from my language, which in turned ported it from a C
program by George Marsaglia, the random number guy.)
However
army of people working on
acceleration projects and tracing JIT compilers. To those people
however, such a benchmark can be a useful yardstick of progress.)
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On 26/02/2018 13:42, Ned Batchelder wrote:
On 2/26/18 7:13 AM, bartc wrote:
A C version is given below. (One I may have messed around with, which
I'm not sure works properly. For an original, google for Marsaglia and
KISS64 or SUPRKISS64.)
Most integers are unsigned, which have
x27;hot paths' within a Python program, but
optimises hot paths in the special Python interpreter. One written in
[R]Python. Or something...
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On 26/02/2018 14:04, bartc wrote:
On 26/02/2018 13:42, Ned Batchelder wrote:
Well, once you notice that the
Python code had N=1e5, and the C code had N=1e9 :) If you want to
experiment, with N=1e5, the final number should be 5255210926702073855.
OK, I'll try that.
I have that P
On 26/02/2018 15:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 2:02 AM, bartc wrote:
On 26/02/2018 14:04, bartc wrote:
On 26/02/2018 13:42, Ned Batchelder wrote:
Well, once you notice that the
Python code had N=1e5, and the C code had N=1e9 :) If you want to
experiment, with N
On 26/02/2018 17:05, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
A C version is given below. (One I may have messed around with, which
I'm not sure works properly. For an original, google for Marsaglia and
KISS64 or SUPRKISS64.)
The version I know uses unsigned integers. Did you change th
ffect PyPy, which ran at the same
speed with i64(), without it, or with both i64() and i64a().)
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On 26/02/2018 20:27, bartc wrote:
On 26/02/2018 19:50, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 6:37 AM, Rick Johnson
So what? Latency is latency. And whether it occurs over the
course of one heavily recursive algorithm that constitutes
the depth and breadth of an entire program (a la
second, so it's not bad going.
Of course, the C version will generate them at over 100 million per second.
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On 27/02/2018 02:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Feb 27, 2018 at 12:57 PM, bartc wrote:
On 27/02/2018 00:35, Chris Angelico wrote:
Anyway, even this pure Python version can deliver pseudo random numbers at
some 200,000 per second, while the built-in generator does 450,000 per
second, so
FromString("__builtins__");
if (builtin_object == NULL)
return 0;
return 1;
}
)
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m code resides there.
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ns that when you did want to discard an expensive
resource, then X going out of scope, calling del X or whatever, will not
work if a copy of X still exists somewhere.
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ssages when running on CPython 2.7 and 3.6, with
the code run from a .py file. (I never use interactive mode.)
But not when running on a PyPy version of 2.7 (however that is not CPython).
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tomatically reboot and continue the
calculation that was interrupted. By memory, it rebooted something like 30
or 40 times during the first moon landing.
Wouldn't the same error just recur each time? Or was this a random
hardware error rather than logic?
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e Python is installed):
C:\Python\;
(Or navigate to the end and type ;C:\Python\, assuming there are some
settings already.)
* Keep clicking OKs until it's done
* Open the command prompt again and type 'python' to test.
NOTE: I've assume Python is in C:\Python, but it mi
gram.
But a bit of a cheat I think, and probably not good practice (suppose
all your hundreds of apps put dedicated launchers into C:\windows which
is supposed to be for OS stuff).
(And if you're going to do that, you can also just put a one-line script
in there to launch any program.)
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some that also have
dynamic types.
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On 12/08/2016 10:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:38 PM, BartC wrote:
You can be too dynamic. Take an example like this:
d.yaer=1999
print (d.day,d.month,d.year)
This would never get past a static language nor some that also have dynamic
types.
Nor will it get
On 12/08/2016 12:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 07:38 pm, BartC wrote:
'year' has been spelled wrongly
How do you know?
I know because my intention was to create a RECORD, with a specific set
of members or fields. With records, you usually don't ju
On 12/08/2016 12:55, BartC wrote:
On 12/08/2016 12:07, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
The first time I ever compiled a full-sized application (not a particular
large one either, it was a text editor a little more featureful than
Notepad) it took something like nine hours to compile on a Mac SE
On 12/08/2016 23:12, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 9:39:11 PM UTC+12, BartC wrote:
'year' has been spelled wrongly
That’s why Python has __slots__.
OK. So when I said:
>
> My example was specifically about attribute names where pre-declaring
>
On 13/08/2016 08:37, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 12 Aug 2016 09:55 pm, BartC wrote:
I know because my intention was to create a RECORD, with a specific set
of members or fields. With records, you usually don't just create
arbitrary named members as you go along.
Unfortun
On 13/08/2016 12:10, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:09 PM, BartC wrote:
And if subclassing isn't enough, there's no end of stuff you can do
with decorators. Try this:
class Foo:
@prop
class demo:
"""Declarative propert
On 13/08/2016 13:08, BartC wrote:
On 13/08/2016 12:10, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:09 PM, BartC wrote:
And if subclassing isn't enough, there's no end of stuff you can do
with decorators. Try this:
class Foo:
@prop
class demo:
""&
On 13/08/2016 17:06, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sat, 13 Aug 2016 08:09 pm, BartC wrote:
record date=# define the record
var day, month, year
end
d := date(25,12,2015) # create an instance
Sure. But you've put most of the work into the compiler.
Into th
On 14/08/2016 05:13, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2016 06:59 am, BartC wrote:
* The fields in my record are known at compile time
There's nothing like that in Python. But the difference between compile-time
and run-time is not that significant in practice (as opposed
ts
into the currently running program that invoked exec().
(Myself, I generally stay away from language building and extension
features. I believe it leads to more complex languages - look at C++ -
that can be difficult to follow.)
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On 14/08/2016 14:18, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 8:49 PM, BartC wrote:
Well, it's using exec(). So it is generating new program code at runtime.
That is possible in quite a few languages, even C.
It doesn't have to; that's only so it doesn't have to
iscard.
Anyway a?b:c was existing practice. At least the order of a,b,c could
have been retained if not the exact syntax.
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Or use (123).bit_length() which looks slightly less odd.
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her issue, but it doesn't explain why the
results with the /same version/ of Python are different.
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lly the above example is one of the easiest to perform
type-inference on, where the variable has been assigned a known type on
the previous line!
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On 29/08/2016 15:00, Grant Edwards wrote:
On 2016-08-29, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 10:13 PM, BartC wrote:
In C, you can write this:
int x;
x = 5;
x = "hello";
With certain compilers (eg. gcc) you only get a warning. (And since
I don't show wa
something goes
wrong. And this is a perfect example.
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general, new objects are constructed when
implementing +=.)
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31,2,3 --
(10,20,30)1,2,310,20,30 --
"ABC" 1,2,3 "A","B","C" 65,66,67 (works with both)
100 0,1,2...63 --0,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,...0
Getting back to Python, it only has one kind of for-loop and it has
decided to call it "for". It's just one minor thing (among many) that
has to be learned.
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my/ time
doing pointless analysis.)
This actually quite a good micro-benchmark precisely because that would
be an unusual optimisation.
(With benchmarking you usually want to know how long it takes a program
to perform a task, not how long it takes to *not* do it!)
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is:
[d,d,d,d,d]
[d] is a list, containing one item, a dict if that is what it is.
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nt (10<20)=> True
print (type(10<20)) =>
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On 22/09/2016 02:40, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 21 Sep 2016 10:25 pm, BartC wrote:
On 21/09/2016 05:03, Cai Gengyang wrote:
Are there any other data types that will give you type(A) or type(B) =
besides True and False?
No types but any variable or expression containing True or
ndex variable
without worrying if it will clash with an existing local.
But it's not useful enough I think to bother changing now. Or even when
the language was designed.
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ction-scope is plenty. Only one possible top-level
'A' in a function instead of an unlimited number.
(Python allows extra 'A's inside nested functions and classes within
that function, but that's a bit different.)
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ortran compiler need to be
invoked? (And do you need to install one, or is it all included?)
If so, at what point in the above example is it invoked? Is it every
time you run that Python code, or will the load() used a cached copy of
the compiled mean.fy?
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27;6th' at 70mph/110kph. Fortunately it doesn't actually go into reverse.
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| |
R R R
?
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nce or twice, apparently my installation doesn't
have any form of random() (despite being a monstrous 1700MB with 20,000
files).
Not an easy language..)
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On 05/10/2016 14:13, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 4:24:01 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
On 05/10/2016 11:03, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
spam io = do x <- io;
print x;
x <- io;
print (x+1)
(I downloaded Haskell (ghc) yesterday to tr
On 05/10/2016 14:43, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Wednesday, October 5, 2016 at 7:05:02 PM UTC+5:30, BartC wrote:
That's the one it can't find. Actually it can't seem to import any
standard libraries, so the implementation must be screwed up.
Or is it because I downloaded the Minima
On 05/10/2016 22:34, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 6:35 AM, BartC wrote:
This is exactly why I persist with my own language implementations. My
current one is only 1/5000th the size but standard libraries are included!)
Yes, it has all the standard library that *you* expect
had such a
requirement before!
I'd quite like to know too. However I've just tried a test sequence
("[P1d" to move the cursor to row 1) and it didn't work. If there's
reason why something so basic won't work (hence the need for curses etc)
then that would be useful to know too. (And how does curses manage it?!)
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On 06/10/2016 00:27, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Thu, Oct 6, 2016 at 9:45 AM, BartC wrote:
Small languages are perfectly viable: the JIT version of Lua, for example,
is only about 225KB, and is very fast.
If I wanted to send you program.lua, and you didn't have Lua, I only need t
On 06/10/2016 13:38, Peter Otten wrote:
BartC wrote:
All this advice seems to be getting out of hand, with suggestions of
'curses' and 'blessings' and using GUI. I've tried 'ncurses' elsewhere
and it was over the top for what I wanted to do.
The OP wan
will have trouble.
What's the problem with typing "." and "(" anyway; keyboard problems?
(If so then keep away from languages such as C and C++ because they have
a /lot/ more punctuation!) Or used to a language that doesn't require
(,) around function arguments?
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error handler is expanding \
characters to \\.
But the main error appears to be due to the presence of quotes, whether
at each end, or inside the path, enclosing an element with spaces for
example. Try using len(path)>1 instead; it might be near enough (the
1 sounds arbitrary anyway).
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On 07/10/2016 13:39, BartC wrote:
On 07/10/2016 06:30, Oz-in-DFW wrote:
I'm getting an error message on an os.path.getsize call;
But the main error appears to be due to the presence of quotes, whether
at each end, or inside the path, enclosing an element with spaces for
example. Try
/ ended with \ or / for that reason: so that you
could just stick a file at the end without needing to check whether the
path had the right ending or not.
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one character 8 billion times is likely to take quite a
few hours too.
The OP's code however is a good demonstration of how crazy Python's
original for-range loop was: you need to construct a list of N elements
just to be able to count to N. How many years was it until xrange wa
On 08/10/2016 11:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 9:12 PM, BartC wrote:
On 08/10/2016 11:03, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 8:58 PM, meInvent bbird
wrote:
how to refactor nested for loop into smaller for loop assume each of them
independent?
because memory
stand their code?
How is anyone going to have confidence that any such code will work?
And Python (suddenly remembering which group this is) is supposed to be
more accessible than other languages. It's not Haskell.
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t numbers tying for smallest is not meaningful; the caller
can't tell if a minimum value of 42 came from a, b or c.
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ds on the workload in the run() function
being executed.
Or only print every 1000th line or something if progress has to be
monitored.
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different
with functions such as eval and exec.
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tive-code compilation. Here I
might just say CPython if I'm assuming a normal byte-code compiler and
byte-code interpreter model.
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On 11/10/2016 13:49, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
Unfortunately, Windows is one of the poorest documented OS I've
encountered
The problem is more that there is too much documentation!
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x27;s coming
Try adding:
bg()
at the end in order to call bg.
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On 11/10/2016 18:14, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2016 12:19 am, BartC wrote:
Python is not really suited for AOT native-code compilation.
You might be right, but the author of Nuitka disagrees.
http://nuitka.net/
I tried the same thing with a dynamic language: translating
t what is going on.
'else' can be used here:
n=6
x=1
while x<=n:
print "*"*x
x+=1
while n>=x:
n=n-1
print "*"* n
else:
print ("2nd loop exit n=",n,"x=",x)
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On 12/10/2016 05:30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 11:23:48 AM UTC+13, BartC wrote:
while n>=x:
n=n-1
print "*"* n
else:
print ("2nd loop exit n=",n,"x=",x)
What is the difference between that and
while n&
On 12/10/2016 11:15, Peter Otten wrote:
BartC wrote:
On 12/10/2016 05:30, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wednesday, October 12, 2016 at 11:23:48 AM UTC+13, BartC wrote:
while n>=x:
n=n-1
print "*"* n
else:
print ("2nd loop exit n=",n,"x=",x)
the impression from some
threads here that many apparently do little else in their code but bind
and rebind function names.)
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ven though you've called
the variable 'randomNUMBER'.
With "b" in place of b, the program works on Python 3, although it
doesn't verify bad inputs.
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ter (I don't
know what it did about cursor keys, but maybe it didn't have any.)
This gives you the ability to do (2) above. From that, you could do (1)
(echoing) and go on to build full line-orientated input. But you had
complete control.
So, why has it all become so difficult?
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On 25/10/2016 11:39, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 11:02:31 +0100, BartC declaimed the
following:
This gives you the ability to do (2) above. From that, you could do (1)
(echoing) and go on to build full line-orientated input. But you had
complete control.
So, why has it all
On 25/10/2016 12:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 9:02 PM, BartC wrote:
raw_input('Press the Enter key to continue... ')
Which doesn't work on Python 3. So even here, making it easy by using
line-input, it's not so straightforward.
So you use input
should*.
With my rare forays into GUI, that's exactly what I end up doing: in a
loop waiting for events.
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On 25/10/2016 23:58, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 9:30 AM, BartC wrote:
That still doesn't answer the fundamental question:
Are you looking for KEYBOARD input or TEXT input?
Does it matter that much?
Because even if you opt for TEXT, the input (when interactive whi
On 26/10/2016 02:02, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 09:02 pm, BartC wrote:
raw_input('Press the Enter key to continue... ')
Which doesn't work on Python 3. So even here, making it easy by using
line-input, it's not so straightforward.
Really, Bart? You
On 26/10/2016 05:44, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
BartC :
Some people want to work at low level, without needing to drag in a GUI,
and want to do something as simple as finding out if a button has been
pressed on a standard peripheral that nearly every computer has. It
can't be that hard!
I
On 26/10/2016 13:33, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
BartC :
On 26/10/2016 05:44, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
(I've implemented 'keyboards' both on-screen, and on the surface of
digitising tablets (also with a hacked Casio calculator pcb when I
couldn't afford a real one). With all o
On 27/10/2016 00:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 10/26/2016 7:18 AM, BartC wrote:
Can tkinter do it without creating a distracting pop-up window at the
same time?
Yes. I already showed how on this thread. Of course, for some text
appications, one would be better off with a Text widget than with
On 27/10/2016 07:51, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Thursday 27 October 2016 12:12, BartC wrote:
I don't
understand the argument that a language shouldn't have a basic keyboard
API because some computers it could run on might not have a keyboards.
That's not the argument.
On 27/10/2016 11:07, Terry Reedy wrote:
On 10/26/2016 9:12 PM, BartC wrote:
On 27/10/2016 00:30, Terry Reedy wrote:
So how does your tkinter example work in such a server?
Without X-windows available, there would be no point, and it will not
work. I presume including the X window
[repost as original disappeared]
On 27/10/2016 12:41, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2016 09:42 pm, BartC wrote:
I don't need one character at a time. I want to pause everything else, ask
the user a question, and wait for them to enter an entire line.
And no, I don't w
On 27/10/2016 17:13, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 12:13 am, BartC wrote:
Doubtless your solution would be some large sledgehammer to crack this
particular nut.
*shrug*
Python's a pretty high-level language. Not every low-level feature needs to
be part of the Pytho
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