ved here, and even a reference to team[2] won't help.
Presumably there is no other way to do an in-place deletion of an
element of a list. (Inserting an element is different.)
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ill have needed something special, for example:
x = anything # any other undefined name
which is currently not allowed.
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n't show is that the N-times and endless loops are
probably used more with short test programs than in final applications,
so having a very quick way to express them is convenient.)
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On 16/10/2017 18:46, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 10/16/2017 11:21 AM, bartc wrote:
del x effectively removes it from the namespace so trying to use it on
line 4 generates the same 'undefined' error.
However, the byte-code still needs to be aware of x: at the time when
line 1 is executed
On 17/10/2017 01:53, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 03:16 am, Oren Ben-Kiki wrote:
That doesn't explain why `del` isn't a method though.
`del` cannot be a method or a function, because the argument to `del` is the
name of the variable, not the contents of the variable.
If we writ
argument).
What does the second argument do?
I thought Load and Store were of equal rank.
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On 17/10/2017 21:05, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 3:19 AM, bartc wrote:
On 17/10/2017 16:44, Terry Reedy wrote:
In CPython left-hand expressions are not merely quoted for runtime
evaluation and use. They are parsed at compile time and compiled to almost
normal bytecode
ng or with
apportioning credits.
Still, copying looks pretty complicated...
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?
Which style would you prefer to read?
Or do you prefer the more cryptic style in open source code?
(The = vs. == issue is of one of numerous design flaws in C, but
uglifying source code to get around it isn't the answer.)
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in G.
(What the OP wants was also proposed a few weeks back in comp.lang.c.
But that was only within nested functions, so if H is inside G, and G is
inside F, then a 'returnall' from H would return directly directly from
F. Apparently Lisp allows this...)
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is in the word 'exception'. It does seem that a lot of
code uses exceptions which are routinely triggered.
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nction):
assem
mov sp,[spvalue]
mov bp,[bpvalue]
jmp [recoverylabel]
end
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On 02/11/2017 01:19, Steve D'Aprano wrote:
On Thu, 2 Nov 2017 08:21 am, Chris Angelico wrote:
With the 'for' loop,
it's a bit more arguable, but I've never seen anything more than a
weak argument in favour of 'then'
Thhpptpt!
"else" is an completely inappropriate term that doesn't describe t
mediately following the loop.
And there are some circumstances where the 'else' part is never executed.
But if people prefer a different keyword, then why not? I think 'then'
can be used, without impacting its use as an identifier, because it will
always be followed by &q
t everyone. It
may be necessary to use this to spell out exactly how it works:
for i in r:
pass ...
after_normal_loop_termination_then:
pass ...
(And now, there is the possibility of having an additional 'else' clause
to cover abnormal termination via break. This time what 'else' does is
more obvious.)
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think it has to be if
you want more than one iteration!), which means that sometimes, it will
never break, then you get the Y/Y (or N/N) result. But the expectation
is that there the break COULD be executed, so you will need the 'else'.
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from Python I think involves the
ctypes module (I've never done it). Googling 'ctypes shared library'
gives some promising results.
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On 07/11/2017 02:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 12:52 PM, bartc wrote:
Cython seems very confusing to me.
Otherwise what /I/ would look for is ways to call C functions inside shared
libraries (.dll and .so). That requires that the modules under test be
wrapped as a
On 07/11/2017 11:16, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 10:06 PM, bartc wrote:
My experience is different.
Thanks for the FUD. I love it when someone, on the basis of one failed
experiment, trash-talks an excellent piece of software that would
solve the OP's problem.
OK, I
ther example here.
(cffi doesn't seem to be part of any of my pythons, so that would be an
obstacle for me as installing extra stuff rarely seems to work. Having
said that, I located pip.exe, trying typing 'pip install cffi' and it
seemed to be doing something but then failed with
On 07/11/2017 12:14, Lele Gaifax wrote:
bartc writes:
But just staying with the "function with no arguments" for the minute (the
equivalent of Hello World for this exercise), how would it be done in
Cython? Would a working example be simple enough to show in a usenet post?
fred.c:
On 07/11/2017 13:11, bartc wrote:
$ python setup.py build_ext --inplace
OK, thanks. Although when I get to this bit, my system still says:
17.297
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "setup.py", line 1, in
from distutils.core import setup
Update:
On 07/11/2017 13:30, Thomas Jollans wrote:
On 2017-11-07 12:53, bartc wrote:
Having
said that, I located pip.exe, trying typing 'pip install cffi' and it
seemed to be doing something but then failed with a bunch of errors.)
So you're missing out on all of PyPI? That'
On 07/11/2017 14:33, Tim Golden wrote:
On 07/11/2017 14:20, bartc wrote:
You've lost me. I had to look up pyPI and it's something to do with a
Package Index. But I don't know how that relates to installing Cython.
Can I just step in now with my Moderator hat on and ask:
>>> import life
>>> dir(life)
['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__',
'__test__']
>>>
works fine.
Not really, as it's missing the attribute 'life' which is needed for the
second part of 'life.life':
But as I wrote, doing a:
python -vc "import life; print(life.life())"
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On 09/11/2017 06:51, [email protected] wrote:
How can I covert numbers into word like ex:-123 One hundred twenty three?
google for something like "algorithm numbers to words".
If this is homework, then it's not cheating as everyone else will be
doing the same.
> How can I covert numbe
On 09/11/2017 16:33, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Rurpy via Python-list
wrote:
On 11/08/2017 11:29 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
[...]
Please, Jon, accept that we were not deliberately trying
to put you down. Steve, if you can clearly state your position on this
(possibly
On 09/11/2017 17:04, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 4:00 AM, bartc wrote:
On 09/11/2017 16:33, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Nov 10, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Rurpy via Python-list
wrote:
On 11/08/2017 11:29 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:
[...]
Please, Jon, accept that we were not
be desirable to have these constant too, for example:
let def F():
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ht enums that do the same.
They allow the possibility of an efficient 'switch' statement.
And that's just for numeric constants. If applied also to constant defs,
classes and imports, they introduce extra scope for compile-time optimising.
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already take care of those.
But which keyboards will have π [copied from the one above!]?
Apart perhaps from the ones in Greece, where π might already be heavily
used in the same way we use 'p'.
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what
'infinity' is actually for, rather than go to considerable lengths to
test a class that may not actually be needed.
And there's a quite lot left of the rest of the program to worry about too!
If you add 'window()' at the end of the program, then it seems to r
agic needed is on
the other side of them. Calling into sys.fn() uses the same
CALL_FUNCTION byte-code as calling into a regular Python function.)
As I said, it's not pure. More of a jungle as you've found out.)
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On 25/11/2017 16:07, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 11/25/2017 06:00 AM, bartc wrote:
And there's a quite lot left of the rest of the program to worry about too!
If you add 'window()' at the end of the program, then it seems to run on
Python 3. I'd play around with it firs
].flash()
If you comment out those two lines, then the flashing disappears, and it
still works.
Of course, if I'd used unit tests, I'd have figured that out a lot
sooner. I would just have had the somewhat bigger problem of devising a
unit test that would detect this.
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On 26/11/2017 14:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 1:11 AM, bartc wrote:
The way I write code isn't incrementally top down or bottom up. It's
backwards and forwards. Feedback from different parts means the thing
develops as a whole. Sometimes parts are split int
On 27/11/2017 03:04, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 11/26/2017 08:39 AM, bartc wrote:
The problem was traced to two lines that were in the wrong order (in the
original program). I can't see how unit tests can have helped in any way
at all, and it would probably have taken much longer.
What
On 27/11/2017 12:54, Cai Gengyang wrote:
Input :
count = 0
if count < 5:
print "Hello, I am an if statement and count is", count
while count < 10:
print "Hello, I am a while and count is", count
count += 1
Output :
Hello, I am an if statement and count is 0
Hello, I am a while and
On 27/11/2017 13:57, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 10:38 PM, bartc wrote:
Your decoder was straight-up buggy, and tests would have proven this.
I created my Python version after the abysmal results from other Python
decoders I tried which didn't work at all, gav
On 27/11/2017 17:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 2:14 AM, bartc wrote:
JPEG uses lossy compression. The resulting recovered data is an
approximation of the original.
Ah but it is a perfect representation of the JPEG stream. Any given
compressed stream must always decode to
code.
But it's not accessible from the language.
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.
(gotos are frowned upon because they make program flow harder to see
within a normal structured program. However examples of 'advanced'
Python I've seen are such that I would rather contend with a few gotos.)
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m almost
benign! (Except that Python would probably let you assign to labels...)
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On 29/12/2017 20:25, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 7:03 AM, bartc wrote:
On 29/12/2017 18:55, MarkA wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 00:58:48 -0200, Duram wrote:
How to use goto in python?
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Rather than ask
On 29/12/2017 21:56, Stefan Ram wrote:
Chris Angelico writes:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 8:03 AM, D'Arcy Cain wrote:
On 12/29/2017 02:25 PM, Chris Angelico wrote:
PHP also added goto to a later version.
Ahh, great choice of example. "It's okay - PHP does it."
I thought that that was a reason
On 29/12/2017 21:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 9:03:50 AM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Why most newer, higher level languages don't, I don't know. Perhaps
because the people who design them want to make programming harder?
I don’t use gotos in C code. Why
On 30/12/2017 03:05, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Saturday, December 30, 2017 at 12:12:23 PM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
Looking at 14 million lines of Linux kernel sources, which are in C,
over 100,000 of them use 'goto'. About one every 120 lines.
That kind of thing leads to spaghetti c
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" and "@".
Before completely dismissing it howeve
On 30/12/2017 20:36, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
On 30/12/2017 16:53, mm0fmf wrote:
On 30/12/2017 14:41, bartc wrote:
it looks a bit naff
Understatement of 2017.
I'm honest about my own ideas, but my remarks were about the use of
special symbols such as "::" a
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens to be at the
tail of each case.
IME that seems to be the most common situation.
Any other
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 10:45 AM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:26, Gregory Ewing wrote:
bartc wrote:
B and C occur twice, so a goto is a quick way to reuse B and C without
needing to duplicate code,
This only works if the repeated part happens
On 31/12/2017 12:41, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Dec 31, 2017 at 11:33 PM, bartc wrote:
On 30/12/2017 23:54, Chris Angelico wrote:
I've written code that uses dirty tricks like that to avoid
duplication. It's at least as much of a problem as actual duplication
is. Generally,
On 31/12/2017 15:02, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
bartc writes:
I think there's a problem with that. Standard C does not have them, you
said your language does not implement them properly
(The real problem is I don't remember local functions being used
anywhere else. It's an idi
On 31/12/2017 17:06, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jan 1, 2018 at 3:55 AM, bartc wrote:
The suggestion was to use them to avoid gotos. If duplicating is a good
idea (and it's a hard line to draw) then we are not talking about the
same cases. Given the choice of "dragging in named
On 31/12/2017 19:29, bartc wrote:
[Ignore the original, incomplete version of my post, which appears after
the sig.
I decided to actually try it out for real instead of just guessing!
Good thing too.]
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n still contain break or return
(and in my syntax, several other loop controls). It loses context as
soon as it's hoisted into a function.
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On 31/12/2017 17:01, [email protected] wrote:
Further I've never once in 17 years of using Python been tearing my hair out
over the lack of goto
Neither have I over all the advanced features of Python I never use, and
for double that number of years.
Yet for some they will be as indisp
On 01/01/2018 00:40, MRAB wrote:
On 2017-12-31 23:21, bartc wrote:
[Block delimiting]
proc fn2(int a)=
...
end
(or possibly "inline f123=").
[snip]
OT: if "case ... esac" and "if ... fi", why not "proc ... corp"? :-)
(I don't think Al
lly intent on making life difficult.
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On 01/01/2018 15:06, From wrote:
(Posting On Python-List Prohibited)
why ?
Huh?
I'm posting to the usenet group comp.lang.python (an off-topic reply to
an off-topic remark, but it happens).
I've no idea what the prohibited part is about, if that's what you're
pos
On 29/12/2017 18:11, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 4:13 AM, bartc wrote:
If you want to translate code from one language to another, and the source
language uses gotos, or uses control structures not available in the target
language, then gotos would be very useful in the
On 02/01/2018 15:20, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 1:51 AM, bartc wrote:
I like to write code in a simple, clean, universal style that everyone can
understand.
That doesn't mean it has to look like Fortran.
Why are you using a Python interpreter then? Why are you he
1 (y)
4 COMPARE_OP 7 (not in)
I get '4 COMPARE OP6 (in)' here. So they are distinct ops. 'not in'
doesn't just call 'in', then apply 'not'. Not here anyway.
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On 07/01/2018 21:51, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 7:41 AM, bartc wrote:
Maybe someone wants to do weird stuff with == that doesn't yield a true or
false result, so that you can't just reverse it for !=.
For example (perhaps this is similar to what was suggested
quite fast, especially LuaJIT, but the language is also smaller and
simpler.)
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On 10/01/2018 14:55, Antoon Pardon wrote:
On 10-01-18 13:40, Jan Erik Moström wrote:
I'm looking for a really easy to use graphic library. The target users
are teachers who have never programmed before and is taking a first
(and possible last) programming course.
I would like to have the abilit
terminates.)
The only way to get it simpler than that is where the display window is
always present (like some old Basics).
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On 10/01/2018 23:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Thursday, January 11, 2018 at 1:08:25 AM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
But I'm not convinced that register-based is necessarily faster.
Not if your code is dominated by memory accesses, as a dynamic language is
likely to be. But ask the peopl
On 11/01/2018 05:16, Michael Torrie wrote:
On 01/10/2018 01:13 PM, bartc wrote:
Yes the link didn't have the simple examples I hoped for. How's this:
-
import pygame
import time
pygame.init()
screen = pygame.display.set_mode((1024, 768) )
red = (255,
On 11/01/2018 15:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:38 AM, bartc wrote:
Although I can't run it because 'pygame' is not available. I think
installing this library is likely to be a bigger obstacle than programming
any graphics!
(If I try and download it a
On 11/01/2018 18:42, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 5:33 AM, bartc wrote:
Well, that seemed to do something, and it didn't need me to download any
.whl files. But then I noticed a bunch of errors culminating with:
"Command python setup.py egg_info failed with error
On 11/01/2018 19:41, Paul Moore wrote:
On 11 January 2018 at 18:33, bartc wrote:
python -m pip install XXX
just works, for 99% of things anyone wants. In particular it works for pygame.
Continuing to complain about a situation that has been resolved for a
year or more
I tried that
On 11/01/2018 20:12, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 7:02 AM, bartc wrote:
On 11/01/2018 19:41, Paul Moore wrote:
On 11 January 2018 at 18:33, bartc wrote:
python -m pip install XXX
just works, for 99% of things anyone wants. In particular it works for
pygame
On 11/01/2018 20:53, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 7:34 AM, bartc wrote:
It failed on my 3.6, it failed on 3.4, it failed on 3.7 (is what 'pip' does
really so leading edge?), and finally worked on a brand-new 3.6.
In case you haven't figured it out by
On 11/01/2018 22:32, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 9:21 AM, bartc wrote:
As I understand it, pygame is just another add-on, which doesn't inherently
need to use .whl format, and which doesn't inherently need to use 'pip'
package installer. I even saw somew
On 11/01/2018 23:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:11 AM, bartc wrote:
I'm almost ready to plonk you, but I think there is still SOME value
in your posts. But please, stop denigrating what you don't understand.
And please try to see things from the pointer of
On 12/01/2018 01:56, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 12:21 PM, bartc wrote:
On 11/01/2018 23:23, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:11 AM, bartc wrote:
I'm almost ready to plonk you, but I think there is still SOME value
in your posts. But please,
On 17/01/2018 11:04, kushal bhattacharya wrote:
Hi,
Is there any python framework or any tool as which can generate C code from
python code as it is .
What C code would you expect to see from this line of Python:
a = b + c
?
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you can open a command prompt. If not in python364, then
substitute the actual installation path.
Or click Start, and type python.exe into the search box. If it finds it,
click it.
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On 21/01/2018 01:21, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:08 PM, bartc wrote:
On 20/01/2018 17:16, Jim Sadler wrote:
I downloaded python 3.6.4 and although everything about the installation
seems correct (path, file size, checking on cmd to see if file installed
correctly-it is
On 21/01/2018 01:52, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Jan 21, 2018 at 12:40 PM, bartc wrote:
Get it working anywhere first to find out what the problem is.
Get it working in the default location before you change things. The
%PATH% environment variable exists to save you from typing seven
nd a simpler one, as 'a=b+c'
translates to 'a+b+c;' in C.
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On 23/01/2018 13:34, bartc wrote:
Perhaps you simply want to use Python syntax to write C code? That would > be a different kind of translator. And a simpler one, as 'a=b+c' >
translates to 'a+b+c;' in C.
Or rather, 'a=b+c;'
(I've written source t
- typically badly suited to interactive or exploratory
programming, and less flexible;
- may give the programmer a false sense of security that
just because the program compiles, it must be bug-free.
If the static language doesn't have flexible arrays, that can be a bit
of
e
and complex also leading to such issues, where no one individual can see
the whole picture.
For example, in the system used for building CPython from source.
But I guess what you're describing doesn't apply in such cases. Those
20K or 30K lines of configure scripts really /are/ nec
On 17/02/2018 22:09, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 8:50 AM, bartc wrote:
That's a very interesting observation.
I've frequently made the complaint about systems that I consider large and
complex also leading to such issues, where no one individual can see the
who
On 18/02/2018 00:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 11:13 AM, bartc wrote:
It's text, but it is an intermediate or "object" file. It's not doing
pointless stuff; it's coping with the myriad platforms and variants
that Python has support for.
It could
On 18/02/2018 01:39, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 12:31 PM, bartc wrote:
On 18/02/2018 00:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 11:13 AM, bartc wrote:
It's text, but it is an intermediate or "object" file. It's not doing
pointless stuff;
blems such as
redundancy.
I'm taking the opportunity to say that that can apply in many other
situations too.
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odd numbers from 1 to 10 inclusive work?
(That, a type consisting of one of the values in {1,3,5,7,9}.) Would
they be ordered or unordered? Can I do arithmetic with them: will 3*3
work, but not 3*5?
This is where keeping things simple pays off.
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On 19/02/2018 02:59, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 1:14 PM, bartc wrote:
How would even a type for the odd numbers from 1 to 10 inclusive work?
(That, a type consisting of one of the values in {1,3,5,7,9}.) Would they be
ordered or unordered? Can I do arithmetic with them
, that have types
associated with them).
That's scope; Python has that too. (Although not C's block scopes and
its bizarre rules which mean that you can have up 5 different 'x'
meanings even within the same block. And an unlimited number of 'x'
scopes within the s
done at runtime and can't be conditional).
Operators are static and cannot overridden.
AFAIK, all these are dynamic in Python (not sure about operators).)
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ch older people prefer to round upwards,
for some reason).
So age is usually colloquially specified as an integer from 1 to around
100. Other than for young children where the lack of precision requires
the use of fractions or to switch to whole numbers of months or weeks.
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On 20/02/2018 19:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 at 1:43:41 AM UTC+13, bartc wrote:
In Pascal (and presumably Ada) then all the
gubbins need to make this work properly:
var x: 1..10;
x = 10;
x = x + 1; { error? }
Error on both statements. Pascal
On 20/02/2018 20:17, MRAB wrote:
On 2018-02-20 19:17, bartc wrote:
On 20/02/2018 19:04, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 17:11:05 +, "Wild, Marcel, Prof
"
declaimed the following:
So the special type of the values 65..90 might not allow the type be
multiplied
proaches, have
you tried outputting the numbers more than one at a time?
I found that list or tuple of 10 floats produced a file of 98 or 97
bytes, a somewhat smaller overhead. 10,000, about 90KB, a 10% overhead.
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bartc
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On 21/02/2018 15:54, ast wrote:
Le 21/02/2018 à 15:02, bartc a écrit :
On 21/02/2018 13:27, ast wrote:
Time efficient or space efficient?
space efficient
If the latter, how many floats are we talking about?
10^9
OK. My experiment of writing the same 64-bit float a billion times to a
times speed-up over the original code.
Here's another speed-up I found myself, although it was only 50 times
faster, not 17,000: just write the code in C, and call it via
os.system("fib.exe"). But you /do/ need to write it in a different
language.)
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bartc
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On 22/02/2018 12:03, bartc wrote:
On the fib(20) test, it suggests using this to get a 30,000 times speed-up:
BTW while doing my tests, I found you could redefine the same function
with no error:
def fred():
pass
def fred():
pass
def fred():
pass
For classes too
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