and
retain the release announcements?
Kind regards,
Steve
PS: Your mail triggered a visit to https://www.python.org/community/lists/
- it seems it could use some updates. For example,
comp.lang.python-announce is a news URL, which in this day and age will
baffle most visitors! At the very least
racters
* change the PyErr_SetExcFromWindowsErrWithFilenameObjects function to append (or chain) an extra message when either of the filenames contains control characters (or change OSError to do it, or the default sys.excepthook)
Cheers,
Steve
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paring the ground for the eventual introduction of the syntax error.
Steve Holden
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 8:07 AM Serhiy Storchaka
wrote:
> 10.08.19 02:04, Gregory P. Smith пише:
> > I've merged the PR reverting the behavior in 3.8 and am doing the same
> > in the master branc
t targeted at the right people. Because we intend to fix the warning,
delaying it by a release is not just "kicking the can down the road".
But we need some agreement on what that looks like.
The bug is already at https://bugs.python.org/issue32912
Cheers,
Steve
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On Mon, Aug 12, 2019 at 6:26 PM Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 8/8/2019 5:31 AM, Dima Tisnek wrote:
> [...]
>
> To me, this one of the major problems with the half-baked default.
> People who want string literals left as is sometimes get away with
> omitting explicit mention of that fact, but sometimes
e it of further traffic.
Good luck!
Steve Holden
On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:04 AM Ana Simion via Webmaster <
webmas...@python.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Can you advise when you’re going to update Python to work with Mac OS X
> Catalina? I am running the beta of Mac OS X Catalina but
On 21Aug2019 1626, Jeremy Kloth wrote:
On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 2:43 PM Steve Dower wrote:
https://github.com/python/cpython/commit/75e064962ee0e31ec19a8081e9d9cc957baf6415
commit: 75e064962ee0e31ec19a8081e9d9cc957baf6415
branch: master
author: Steve Dower
committer: GitHub
date: 2019-08
aised this
question? I'm trying to see if that would be a satisfactory fix.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 29Aug2019 0851, Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
29.08.19 18:35, Steve Dower пише:
The main reason for making it as a per-machine install by default was
because there was no other way to replace the Python 3.4 launcher, but
I suspect that's less of an issue now. (If the old one wasn't
re
users. Nothing in this thread has come anywhere near
suggesting otherwise with anything like the feedback I've heard from users.
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Steve
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It's not dead, it's just restin' after a particularly heavy release process.
regards
Steve Holden
On Mon, Sep 9, 2019 at 4:24 PM Rhodri James wrote:
> On 09/09/2019 15:51, brian.sk...@gmail.com wrote:
> > it's getting better?
>
> No it
On 09Sep2019 1950, Glenn Linderman wrote:
On 9/9/2019 2:48 AM, Steve Dower wrote:
User with administrative privileges are by implication better able to
handle decisions such as this. If they are not, they should not be
administrating a machine.
Most home machines are administered by people
s partially installed
already, not more.
Cheers,
Steve
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Message archived at
https://
willing enough to accept money
(or willing to accept enough money)) to fix an issue, but the fix will
have to go somewhere other than the main repo and someone else will have
to verify and release it.
Cheers,
Steve
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esign something broadly useful and simpler than what
we have now, and this is not going to help with it.
Cheers,
Steve
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emselves without having to relocate files. The note in the
doc also explains the cause.
Cheers,
Steve
[1]: https://docs.python.org/3.8/library/os.html#os.add_dll_directory
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ishes,
Steve Holden
On Tue, Oct 29, 2019 at 10:59 PM Oz Tiram wrote:
> Hello Python-devs,
>
> The csv module is probably heavily utilized by newcomers to Python, being
> a very popular data exchange format.
> Although, there are better tools for processing tabular data like SQLite,
&g
If using a dictionary but still requiring attribute access, techniques such
as those used at https://github.com/holdenweb/hw can be used to simply
client code.
Kind regards,
Steve Holden
On Wed, Oct 30, 2019 at 11:15 AM Oz Tiram wrote:
> Hi Steve,
>
> Thanks for your reply. While
384, so should we assume that the stable
ABI becomes fixed at beta 1 (or RC 1)? That is, it is not allowed to
remove or change any stable ABI APIs from beta/RC 1, even if they
weren't in the previous release? Or will we hold it until the final
release and allow breaking the stable ABI durin
'll be possible for
embedders to not be held hostage by CPython's threading model... one
step at a time! :) )
Cheers,
Steve
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On 19Nov2019 1708, Łukasz Langa wrote:
Go get it here: https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-390a1/
<https://www.python.org/downloads/release/python-390a1/>
Is it intentional that this link does not appear on
https://www.python.org/download/pre-releases/ ?
Cheers,
properly for their context, and so we make things worse. Making it easy
to extend without actually doing it seems like a better place to be.
And I'm totally in favour of publishing ready-to-build samples (again,
see https://github.com/zooba/spython). I just
, or at least
update that page to warn that events may have been added over time).
Cheers,
Steve
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tial to reduce the size of object headers
considerably.
This would be awesome, and I *think* it's ABI compatible (as the
affected fields are all put behind the PyObject* that gets returned,
right?). If so, I think it's worth calling that o
ere.
(One of these days I'll have to join core-workflow I guess...)
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Steve
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On 06Dec2019 1023, Kyle Stanley wrote:
Steve Dower wrote:
> As a related aside, I've been getting GitHub Actions support together
> (which I started at the sprints).
Would adding support for GitHub Actions make it easier/faster to
temporarily disable and re-enable specific CI se
In which case, wouldn't "_" make a better literal prefix than "i"?
A better comparison might be between _"..." and f"...".
regards
Steve Holden
On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 5:37 AM Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 04.12.19 16:02, Anders Munch пише:
>
estigating and merge anyway. Only repo administrators can do that.
Cheers,
Steve
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ps://discuss.python.org/t/pep-603-adding-a-frozenmap-type-to-collections/2318
Codifying semantics isn't always the kind of future-proof we necessarily
want to have :)
Cheers,
Steve
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On 13Dec2019 0959, Brett Cannon wrote:
Steve Dower wrote:
If people are generally happy to move PR builds/checks to GitHub
Actions, I'm happy to merge https://github.com/zooba/cpython/pull/7
into
our active branches (with probably Brett's help) and disable Azure
Pipelines?
I'
ing can be very painful when you have to
manipulate ambient thread state to make Python code work, and this is a
good step towards getting rid of that requirement.)
Cheers,
Steve
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To unsubscribe s
icitly, which seems to go against your previous point (unless you're
insisting that subinterpreters *must* be tied to specific and distinct
"physical" threads, in which case let's argue about that because I think
you're wrong :) ).
Cheers,
Steve
_
On 09Jan2020 1659, Victor Stinner wrote:
Le jeu. 9 janv. 2020 à 19:33, Steve Dower a écrit :
Requiring an _active_ Python thread (~GIL held) to only run on a single
OS thread is fine, but tying it permanently to a single OS thread makes
things very painful. (Of course, this isn't the
I've verified this fix and changed the status to "commit review." I trust
that was the correct action.
Kind regards,
Steve Holden
On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 9:57 PM Cédric Krier via Python-Dev <
python-dev@python.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Any chance to get this P
a major version change, many of our
users don't think of them like that (in part because they come out so
often). The more we can keep things working between them, warts or not,
the better.
Cheers,
Steve
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Really webmas...@python.org would have been more appropriate, but I've
already copied that address on my direct reply to you. The python-dev list
is for discussions about the development of the language and its CPython
implementation.
Kind regards,
Steve
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 7:20 PM
e a problem
that may only show up on that particular configuration. The agent isn't
actually within our control, so it'll be recreated automatically.
(FWIW, the two failing buildbots on the PR are unsupported for 3.9, but
haven't been disabled yet.)
Cheers,
Steve
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t someone, but maybe not, and many in our community see it as a very
good reason to openly *distrust* someone...)
Cheers,
Steve
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python-ideas. There's nothing to stop individual devs still
replying if the inquiry merits it ...
Kind regards,
Steve
On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:49 PM Bar Harel wrote:
> What I usually do btw is just search on mailman. Perhaps we can guide
> people to search on mailman before suggest
- I think Victor just chose the wrong English word there.
Correctness is the first thing to fall when you access globals in
multithreaded code, and the CPython code base accesses a lot of globals.
Cheers,
Steve
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.
You haven't. Separating the Python thread from the "physical" thread is
indeed the point.
Cheers,
Steve
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other than the currently running one, or it's because
our setup.py (for building the CPython extension modules) uses sysconfig.
Either way, I'm not about to propose a rewrite to fix either of them
without finding those who are most involved in these areas. Please come
join me on
Distutils is learning slowly, but this is about the setup.py that's used
to build CPython's own extension modules (everything in
lib/python3.8/lib-dynload).
Questions about building third-party packages go to distutils-sig, not
python-dev :)
Cheers,
Steve
On 19Mar2020 2034, Iv
cut*" (feels too much like what .partition() does)
-0 on "trim*" (this is the name used in .NET instead of "strip", so I
foresee new confusion)
+1 on "remove*" (because this is exactly what it does)
Cheers,
Steve
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On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 5:42 PM Dennis Sweeney
wrote:
> I'm removing the tuple feature from this PEP. So now, if I understand
> correctly, I don't think there's disagreement about behavior, just about
> how that behavior should be summarized in Python code.
> [...]
> return (the original obje
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:04 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 11:36 AM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Personally, I would not like to have to explain to newcomers why `match`
>> is a keyword but you can still use it as a function or variable, but not
>> other keywords like `r
to a sane value).
Sorry for the inconvenience!
Cheers,
Steve
On 07Apr2020 0420, Kyle Stanley wrote:
Looking over the commit history for the PR
(https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/18239/commits), it looks like
that specific Azure Pipelines failure did not start occurring until
upstream/m
ictor's working on that makes him so keen on this :)
All up, moving the C API away from macros and direct structure member
access to *real* (not "static inline") functions is a very good thing
for compatibility. Personally I'd like to go to a function table model
to support fut
On 11Apr2020 0111, Victor Stinner wrote:
Steve: the use case is to debug very rare Python crashes (ex: once
every two months) of customers who fail to provide a reproducer. My
*expectation* is that a debug build should help to reproduce the bug
and/or provide more information when the bug
g/index.html
If you have any suggestions on how to make this recommendation more
obvious, please open an issue and describe what would have helped.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 11Apr2020 0025, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 23:33:28 +0100
Steve Dower wrote:
On 10Apr2020 2055, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:20:00 +0200
Victor Stinner wrote:
Note: Cython and cffi should be preferred to write new C extensions.
This PEP is about existing C
On 13Apr2020 1157, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Mon, 13 Apr 2020 11:35:34 +0100
Steve Dower wrote:
and this code
that they're using doesn't have any system dependencies that differ in
debug builds (spoiler: they do).
Are you talking about Windows? On non-Windows systems, I don't
On 13Apr2020 1122, Steve Dower wrote:
On 11Apr2020 0111, Victor Stinner wrote:
Steve: the use case is to debug very rare Python crashes (ex: once
every two months) of customers who fail to provide a reproducer. My
*expectation* is that a debug build should help to reproduce the bug
and/or
the ability to interact directly with
the rest of your application's data structures.
PyBind11 is the best I've used here - Cython insists on including all
its boilerplate to make a complete module, which often is not what you
want. But there's a lot of
ed code interactively in VS doesn't help make it any
easier to follow.
Cheers,
Steve
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ther
projects that could be considered instead, though I think Cython is the
only one that also provides a usability improvement as well as API
stability.)
Cheers,
Steve
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didn't change (except to have fewer false errors).
Modules that are part of the core runtime deliberately use private APIs
so that other extension modules don't have to. It's not any sort of
unfair advantage - it's a deliberate aspect of the software's design.
Cheers,
S
urrently present
in functools.
It's unfortunate that cached_property doesn't work at module level (as
was pointed out on the other threads - thanks for linking those, BTW).
Cheers,
Steve
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compelling - see the recent removeprefix/removesuffix discussions if you
haven't.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 28Apr2020 1243, Petr Viktorin wrote:
On 2020-04-28 00:26, Steve Dower wrote:
On 27Apr2020 2311, Tom Forbes wrote:
Why not? It's a decorator, isn't it? Just make it check for number
of arguments at decoration time and return a different object.
It’s not that it’s impossible, bu
;s more focused around
copy-on-write, rather than subinterpreters, but the benefits apply to both.)
Cheers,
Steve
On 28Apr2020 1949, Paul Ganssle wrote:
I don't know the answer to this, but what are some examples of objects
where you never change the refcount? Are these Python objects? If s
On 28Apr2020 2006, Steve Dower wrote:
(For those who aren't following it, there's a discussion with a patch
and benchmarks going on at https://bugs.python.org/issue40255 about
making objects individually immortal. It's more focused around
copy-on-write, rather than subinterp
d it later via ctypes, it would be great if
you could drop by the issue and explain the scenario.
Thanks,
Steve
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meant as a joke.
I wouldn't put any more time into this.
Cheers,
Steve
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Mess
On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 7:11 PM Jim J. Jewett wrote:
> David Mertz wrote:
>
> > Fwiw, I don't think it changes my order, but 'strict' is a better word
> than
> > 'equal' in all those places. I'd subtract 0.1 from each of those votes if
> > they used "equal".
>
> I would say that 'equal' is worse
eter might be a helpful
convenience.
However, it is indeed NOT the current proposal or discussion.
Besides, "zip(iter1, iter2, range(5))" is the same length once you
include the extra unpack, plus it works well with earlier versions.
Cheers,
Steve
ork to fit their
needs. That's not how being a libraries/runtime developer works. Our
responsibility is to humbly do the work that will benefit our users, not
to find ways to put in the least possible effort and use the rest for
blame-shifting. Some of us do much more talking than listening
ating Cython releases was too much to ask.
Unless we're going to overrule that immediately, we should leave
everything there and give users/developers a full release cycle with
updated Cython version to make new releases without causing any breakage.
Che
suggestions I'm afraid.
Cheers,
Steve
On 17Jun2020 1437, Shakil Khan wrote:
I am well versed in Python and now trying to understand and learn the Design
philosophy of Python as a Programming Language.
Is there any document related to Design/Archoitecture of Python language itself
whe
red state with other modules in your package. The
latter is probably easier.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 22Jun2020 1646, Steve Dower wrote:
DLLs should not be in the search path at all - it's searched by sys.path
when importing .pyd files, which are loaded by absolute path and their
dependencies found adjacent.
To clarify this - by "DLLs" I meant the DLLs directory, not D
community, and that is
the principal reason I found it distasteful and unnecessary.
Kind regards,
Steve
PS: I also think there is still room for the PEP to remind writers that
many readers of the documentation who graciously allow us to use English
without complaint are using it as their secon
do not necessarily require my opinions to be
thought reasonable, even by other reasonable people.
Kind regards,
Steve
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:22 AM Nathaniel Smith wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:31 AM Steve Holden wrote:
> > The commit message used, however, reveals imple
Given that case will be a keyword, what's the case (pun unintentional) for
indenting the case clauses? What's wrong with 'case' and 'else' both
indented the same as match? Without the keyword there'd be a case for
indenting, but with it I don't see the neces
While I understand the point of view that says that match ... :
should encapsulate a sequence of indented suites, it seems to me that
match/case/case/.../else has a natural affinity with
try/except/except/.../finally/else, and nobody seems to think that the
excepts should be indented. Or the finall
uot; (i.e.
develop completely new popular libraries with more narrowly scoped
dependencies) to narrow things down at this point, and there's not much
chance of that happening.
Cheers,
Steve
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Sadly micropython is not intended to support numerical libraries and other
such complex modules: the support for the Python standard library is pretty
much non-existent.
Kind regards,
Steve
On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:10 PM Huang, Yang wrote:
> Thank you for all your comments.
>
>
range for
the expression, presumably taken from a particular type of node in the
AST, would be great. But I think omitting even line ranges at this stage
would be a missed opportunity, since we're breaking non-Python debuggers
anyway.
Cheers,
Steve
__
d (whether it's C, C++, C#, Rust, or something else).
Cheers,
Steve
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M
Do you think we should be updating the version of pip bundled with
Python 3.9 at this stage (for the first RC)?
Similarly, is there a need to update Python 3.8 for its next release?
Thanks,
Steve
On 30Jul2020 2119, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
A new pip is out. Please see below, upgrade, and
Thanks. It looks like we can do it later this week and make the next
round of releases. Please let us know asap if anything comes up that you
wouldn't want to be released.
Cheers,
Steve
On 01Aug2020 1632, Sumana Harihareswara wrote:
Steve Dower asked:
Do you think we should be updatin
nowing that "kw" matches the pattern, and then manually
extracting individual values from it. (But I guess for that we'd only
need a fancy "if_match(kw, 'expression')" function... hmm...)
Cheers,
Steve
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udgement, which is part of
being a core dev, but feel free to ask others for advice if you're not
sure).
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Steve
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iodically check in and skim read it,
assuming things don't go way off track).
Also be aware that I already have some minor changes lined up that are
not in this text. Refer to the discussion on Discourse if you need to
see those.
Cheers,
Steve
---
PEP: 632
Title: Deprecate distutils
very quickly just dictate that Python cannot be
used at all.
Cheers,
Steve
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On 07Sep2020 1424, Stefan Krah wrote:
On Mon, Sep 07, 2020 at 11:43:41AM +0100, Steve Dower wrote:
Rest assured, I am very aware of air-gapped and limited network systems, as
well as corporate policies and processes. Having distutils in the standard
library does not help with any of these.
Of
es out much sooner (and can be installed on earlier
versions), and it will only get easier when _all_ the code can be fixed
there. Right now, one of the biggest pains there is having to do loads
of careful monkeypatching to fix one poor choice
On 9/11/2020 12:24 PM, Matthias Klose wrote:
On 9/4/20 1:28 PM, Steve Dower wrote:
Hi all.
setuptools has recently adopted the entire codebase of the distutils module, so
that they will be able to make improvements directly without having to rely on
patching the standard library. As a result
On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 3:53 PM Mark Shannon wrote:
> [...]
>
> maybe!(a.b)
>
> which would translate to:
>
> $tmp = a; None if $tmp is None else ($tmp.b)
>
> This reminds me very much of PL/1's "compile-time procedures," which
forty years ago were pretty much like PL/1 construct
Full marks to the SC for transparency. That's a healthy sign that the
community acknowledges its disciplinary processes must also be open to
scrutiny, and rather better than dealing with matters in a Star Council.
Kind regards,
Steve
On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 12:10 AM Thomas Wouters
Since some code clearly accesses __version__, would it make sense to equip
all stdlib modules with a __version__ property that returned the Python
version, suitably prefixed?
Kind regards,
Steve
On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 5:28 AM Karthikeyan wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 16, 2020, 12:45 AM Ser
he same *could* be said about the existing
optimizations for objects that define their own __contains__.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
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Daniel Stutzbach wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Steve Holden <mailto:st...@holdenweb.com>> wrote:
>
> That's true, but the same *could* be said about the existing
> optimizations for objects that define their own __contains__.
>
&
e point and you have a
> deal. =)
>
Can I just say (without in any way wanting to get involved in what might
be considered as "work") that it's encouraging the tracker received a
bit more TLC we might eventually be able to see at least the occasional
week where the issue count incr
-social act). Please stop now - if you must reply, feel free to do
so by private email.
regards
Steve
David Russell wrote:
> Dear Aahz,
>
> I understand your point but the line should be drawn between somebody
> selling Viagra or insurance to someone like me who is offering an
> opp
Steve Holden wrote:
> David:
>
> Perhaps you'd like to give me your company's internal mailing list
> address so I can drop your staff a line when I hear of Python
> conferences going on your area. Or maybe that's not what the list is for?
>
[...]
Just to clos
mpatibility.
Fortunately I still had the SVN 1.4 client on the Ubuntu machine that
was hosting the Samba shares, so I could use ssh and the command line to
maintain things.
regards
Steve
--
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Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.c
Michael Foord wrote:
> Steve Holden wrote:
>> Steven Bethard wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 1:11 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
>>>
>>>> PS Just for my own information, am I correct in thinking that it is
>>>> *only* Bazaar in the (D)VC
Don't I remember the previous restricted module dying a similar "death
of 1,000 cuts" before it was concluded to be unsafe at any height and
abandoned?
regards
Steve
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> TWIW, on Twitter, Ian Bicking just came up with a half-solution. I
> figured
Lie Ryan wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:22:19 +, tav wrote:
>
>> Steve, this isn't death by a 1,000 cuts. What's being put forward here
>> is not a specific implementation -- but rather a specific model of
>> security (the object capability model) -- which
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