and direct error message like
"Illegal use of [] subscripting/indexing"?
one-more-coat-for-the-bikeshed-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-
Giampaolo Rodola' wrote:
Maybe it would be better considering Windows CE systems too:
- if os.name == 'nt'
+ if os.name in ('nt', 'ce')
Cygwin? I don't know how Unix-like it is.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 4
stribution".
-1
Zooko
who doesn't mind stirring up trouble on occasion...
regards
Steve
who doesn't mind trouble but would rather see communications improve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb
where to put it ;-)
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 8:25 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[much good sense]
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-De
de with an assignment which
would make a name be recognized as local? If you're worried about
"yield" disappearing you should also be worried about assignments
disappearing, since that might cause names to be interpreted as glob
cial applications to number checks in
batches, from a starting point that depends on the number of checks
issued in previous runs. Having a start point would allow this to be
done more simply, though it's not anyway what I would call an onerous task.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
ongue out of your cheek immediately. I am beginning to
feel somewhat uncomfortable on your behalf.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
P
nux. AFAIK the patch hasn't been applied yet.
See http://bugs.python.org/issue1322
Contributor agreement?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-De
he given platforms. I
would like "being able to call a wide range of native libraries" to be a
Python claim on all platforms, even when the native libraries are
platform-proprietary.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://
ahamh, 2008-05-19 23:49 Updated + doc -> reST
That was quick. I'm not in a position to svn update were I am. Looks
like someone's paying attention, though.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC
an that we need access to the Sun compiler or that the Sun
compiler has bugs which prevent ctypes from compiling?
I don't think anyone's mentioned Solaris in this context, but there are
claims that libffi "doesn't build" for AIX and HP-UX.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
()"
100 loops, best of 3: 0.454 usec per loop
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
$ python -m timeit "'%s' % ''"
1000 loops, best of 3: 0.0715 usec per loop
(times are a bit variable at this very moment since I have a few
different apps open)
Me too. Timin
") worked.
It would be even handier if help(if) worked, but that's a syntax
problem, and it would be a horrendous one to overcome, I suspect.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
"salvaging" it. It's going to be too tricky to convert using 2to3
otherwise.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing l
havior to
complain if it stopped working. Basically retaining this behavior is
pandering to people who have ignored the language specification!
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
__
the new one too? It does seem
that change was a little precipitate.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
Perhaps we need a split between "networking technologies" and
"network-based applications".
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev
lways the messy
business of communication required to ensure the information gets to
where it is useful.
The bottom line, of course, is that if project X can't be bothered to
tell the core development team when changes break their build it's
nobody's fault but their own. If the r
So we wait until they port their code to 2.6 to break it?
regards
Steve
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Sounds like a regression in 2.5 (and in 2.6, and in 3.0). Probably due
to the switch to the new AST-based compiler. Can you file a bug? I
think we should leave 2.5 alone (too much risk of breaking
sattr() to determine method
availability, while not strictly "look before you leap" because it
doesn't test for a specific type, certainly isn't EAFP either.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC
ers of a string is going to be an extremely
inefficient operation.
Surely it's desirable under all circumstances that
len(u) == sum(1 for c in u)
and that
[c for c in u] == [c[i] for i in range(*len(u))]
How would that play under Jeroen's proposed change?
regards
Steve
--
St
lpful to many people (including myself).
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/py
it". The stdlib is definitely broken if it
raises warnings of that kind.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.or
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Benjamin Peterson wrote:
Yes, indeed. We should make sure, however, that the changes in the 2.6
libraries are the absolute minimum to get the job done. (I'm trying to
pretend like
the failure of the test, not the specific
exception that is raised to fail it. Or would you prefer tests that
raise other exceptions to succeed? The exception type is an
implementation detail, and a fairly unimportant one as far as the
purpose of testing goes.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Let's split hairs a little...
Steve Holden holdenweb.com> writes:
"Fail" isn't a negative. As Guido said, it's a description of the test
behavior under particular circumstances.
In most circumstances, "fail" is a negative word def
uch less natural way of expressing the condition, and (for
all I know) might even introduce an extra negation operation. "is not"
is, I believe, treated as a single operator.
> [...]
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 4
at *is* the issue at hand if not the question of
positive assertions versus fail if/unless?
As Steve said, this is getting silly...
It certainly is.
Python may be Guido's language, and if he wants to use his dictatorial
powers to say that tests must be written as positive assertions becau
Tim Peters wrote:
[Michael Foord]
...
Adding the following new asserts:
...
assertNotIs (first, second, msg=None)
[Steve Holden]
Please, let's call this one "assertIsNot".
+1
I know it's valid Python to say
if a not is b:
Nope, that's a syntax error
e obvious pattern set by
the others, in the interest of matching Python's 'is not' grammar.
Well, I'd have said "in the interest of reading correctly in English",
though I have to acknowledge this may not be an issue for many Python
users whose first language not is Engli
ry course):
>>> isinstance(type, object)
True
>>> isinstance(object, type)
True
This is a classic property of general object hierarchies based on
metaclasses. I remember teaching the SmallTalk-80 equivalent to M.Sc.
studnets in the early 1980s, though the detail
ssing some subtlety? 2.5.1 says:
>>> isinstance(unittest.TestCase, type)
True
Also, are there any expected benefits from making this change in 2.7?
What will the module do differently?
It seems like a risky change for zero-benefit.
Better revert it, then :-)
But easier to just drop t
themselves are doubly negative. assert* methods are so much more
straightforward to comprehend.
I think this is where I came in.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
_
er my code to use
the updated module you have changed the API. Test code is particularly
sensitive to such changes.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Pyth
ng_as_a_container. Or something equally trivial.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.
is myself but a) I'm not the obvious candidate and b) I'm too
busy to give it my attention now.
If someone wanted to tackle this, it might help getting people testing
for the next beta, and also to recruit more testers in the long-term.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1
nless you can find a way to add the checks without slowing it down,
an external checker might be better.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mail
een so far are all way impractical anyway.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailma
63, Apr 15 2008, 22:57:26)
str("qwer")
'qwer'
repr("qwer")
"'qwer'"
No it doesn't. What's happening in these examples is that the
interpreter is calling repr() on the expression result - otherwise you
wouldn'
of time before some genius decides to design a 67.9-bit computer.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail
g/dev/peps/pep-3117/
Not to mention the April 1 Licensing blog entry:
http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www
answer.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Unsubscribe:
http
ted
that the patches will never get released.
Perhaps we should just document the maintenance of Python releases
more clearly and also plan for a final bug fix release 3 years after
the initial branch release. That way developers and users can also
adjust their plans accordingly.
As always the problem is
7;m copying the pydotorg list to see what, if anything, they have to say
about it. That's where the work is likely to land, so we'd better know
in advance if it would cause problems.
regards
Steve
Guido van Rossum wrote:
Alternatively, I just got mail from Bob Ippolito indicating t
ions and you have to privately backport,
though, isn't it?
There have been hints dropped that if the 2.6 release hits its deadline
it will be incorporated into vendor builds. Let's hope one of them is
MacOS, then at least it'll be relatively up to date.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
suspicious of any solution involving the word "just". I suppose we
will "just" be able to recruit volunteers to maintain the additional
content?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC
t this is low risk high benefit,
> I'd vote no for 2.6/3.0.
But it's [the] wafer-thin [end of the wedge] ...
The difficulties with subprocess suggest there's plenty to do without
adding yet one more tiny little task.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484
t you should take a look at Enthought's traits
package. It's part of the Enthought Tool Suite (ETS).
https://svn.enthought.com/enthought/wiki
While I too appreciate your comments about super I believe you have
perhaps overdone it. I do look forward to seeing the edited edition as a
part of t
; I don't think M.__file__ should lie and say it was loaded from a file
>> that it wasn't loaded from. It's useful to be able to look at a module
>> and see what file it was actually loaded from.
>
> While appreciate the use case, there are way more use cases where
>
to the directory first. For me, not
> a big deal.
>
My own solution, on systems where I haven't bothered to add \python25
and python25\Scripts to the PATH, is to simply use
\python25\python
With tab expansion enabled by default it's easy enough.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Ho
hat it was such a restrictive license. When I
> see "Berkeley" I think "BSD license".
>
Well of course nowadays when you see "SleepyCat" you need to be thinking
"Oracle". They have dabbled in open source, but I didn't get the
impression that the
ned that it appears that normal procedures have
been circumvented to enable its removal from 3.0. Since we have at least
one developer committed to ongoing support that seems both harsh and
unnecessary.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484
>python
'python' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
C:\Users\sholden\Documents\dyjr>manage.py
Type 'manage.py help' for usage.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 4
s 2.x What's New doc. That's what people
> expect to find. We shouldn't be changing that now.
>
+1
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-De
e a cross-link to the 3.0 docs.
>
Indeed. Having spent efforts to persuade the community that 3.0 isn't
intended to replace 2.6 for production use it would be a shame to have
docs.python.org counteract that.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden We
tive portions of the security team would help
the busy members to avoid such issues dropping through the cracks in future.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
his was more of a "so how the hell does it really work" question.
>
I haven't yet heard anyone make a convincing case that it does. It is a
great idea, and we *do* need to take security seriously, but at present
all we have is a bunch of well-intentioned and over-committed volunt
to run the
> program through 2to3 to make it port correctly, I recommend to use
> the build_py_2to3 build step of distutils in 3.0. Then the same source
> can be installed for 2.x and 3.x, with no modifications.
>
Of course there is also the option of treating Python 3 as a diffe
This does make it look rather as though bytes == str was a decision
whose consequences weren't fully appreciated before implementation.
Was this horror anticipated?
regards
Steve
Original Message
Subject: In Python 2.6, bytes is str
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2008 22:30:17 -0700
bytes alias
> serves? I spent 5 minutes with the docs but I wasn't able to find a good
> explanation of the bytes alias
>
Yes, I think all that's really needed is a clarification in the
documentation. Just so people expect slightly kooky behavior of the kind
originally n
me they are called).
>
Though it would seem redundant to create multiple copies of constant
structures. Wouldn't there be some way to optimize this to allow each
call to access the data from the same place?
> Then fusing e.g. LOAD_FAST LOAD_FAST BINARY_ADD into ADD_FAST_FAST would cove
ure. You never know when
> personal affairs are more important than voluntary work.
>
Pretty much whenever they come up ...
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
__
le would then have commit access to all of the Python
>> source.)
>
> SVN supports path-based authorization.
> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/nightly/en/svn.serverconfig.pathbasedauthz.html
good point, but then we'd have an authentication management task ...
regards
Steve
--
Steve Ho
lease submit this question to the comp.lang.python group (python-list
at python dot org). Python-dev is for discussion or the development *of*
Python, not development *with* Python.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC
umber allocated to this draft document? I
think it's likely that it will eventually be published, and I'd like a
number to use in reference to it if possible, please.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC
goes to
> Victor for his hard work on fixing up the networking libraries for
> Py3k!
>
Yay, Victor
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-D
But that would be new functionality in a micro-release, which is verboten.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
t;
How is this different from any other case where you import a module with
a standard library name conflict, thereby confusing modules loaded later
standard library. Should we do the same for any error induced in such a way?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
rload exception constructors on the number of parameters, or using
>> keyword parameters for the new way of filling the exception.
>
> Or go the traditional "multiple constructor" route and provide class
> methods for the alternative mechanisms.
>
Bear in mind,
we again have the situation that the
> docs for the new release are wrecked.
>
Sounds like we need a bot to check the web each new release before the
release manager "presses the button" and makes the announcement.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1
they affect everyone. Even
though very few people actually understand them. Including me, which is
why I've been so quiet on this thread.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
__
has been
advertised as a 3.0 change hardly seems worth the substantial effort of
cutting a release. If cmp() shouldn't have been in 3.0 and was then
there's surely no problem about removing it later as promised: anyone
who uses it in 3.0 code shouldn't be.
If it doesn't have to wa
Is anyone aware of any implementations that use other than 64-bit
floating-point? I'd be particularly interested in any that use greater
precision than the usual 56-bit mantissa. Do modern 64-bit systems
implement anything wider than the normal double?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
Mark Dickinson wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Steve Holden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> precision than the usual 56-bit mantissa. Do modern 64-bit systems
>> implement anything wider than the normal double?
>
> I may have misinterpreted your question. Ar
Lie Ryan wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 12:15:53 -0500, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> Is anyone aware of any implementations that use other than 64-bit
>> floating-point? I'd be particularly interested in any that use greater
>> precision than the usual 56-bit manti
something that
> everybody else here seems to agree upon. I just know that using a distinct
> path type has helped me in C++ in the past, and I don't see why it shouldn't
> in Python.
>
Seems to me this just threatens to add to the confusion.
If you know what your filesystem
Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
> On Thursday 11 December 2008, Steve Holden wrote:
>> Ulrich Eckhardt wrote:
>>> What I'd just like some feedback on is the approach to return a distinct
>>> type (neither a byte string nor a Unicode string) from readdir(). In
>>>
er-process communication mechanisms. On a single-processor computer
synchronization was much less of a problem.
regards
Steve
Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Yes, this is what threads were designed for. As an abstraction to have
> multiple "threads of control" on a *single* processor (i
ed the code, and it's a pain to go back.
>
> I believe "svn blame -x -w" ignores whitespace changes.
>
Sounds like Uncle Timmy's whitespace management needs to become a little
more draconian.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 80
ly spent a half-hour trying to find rules on the uses in English of
> infinitives versus gerunds and did not find anything definitive. I realize
> now, to my disgust, that English usage is very badly afflicted with
> "special casing."
>
This is only significant because Mar
ty a simplistic approach that redefines all space reclamation
activities as null functions won't work. I hate to think of all the
cycles that are being wasted reclaiming space just because a program has
terminated, when in fact an os.exit() call would work just as well from
the user's point o
ease manage PEP?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
Uns
/ free() functions. I'm no expert enough to find out more on the
> subject.
>
I believe the OP engendered a certain amount of confusion by describing
object deallocation as being performed by the garbage collector. So he
perhaps didn't understand that even decref'ing all the ob
iven a line and file. (In other words and invalid
> location for a debugger line breakpoint, such as because the line
> part of a comment or the interior line of a string that spans many
> lines)
>
Looks like that start of some necessary attention to this issue. The
inspect module migh
/a/b' when
>> passed the following paths list:
>>
>> paths = ['/a/b/c', '/a/b/cd']
>
> Change that to [os.path.normpath(p)+'/' for p in paths] and you've got
> yourself a winner.
>
Or possibly [os.path.normpath(p)+os.path.sep fo
"sitting with Nellie" - doing the work next
to, and directly supervised by, someone who had been doing it a long
time and who knew all the wrinkles of the job. Quite how to achieve a
similar effect in today's distributed development environment is less
obvious.
Could we talk abo
Georg Brandl wrote:
> Steve Holden schrieb:
>
>> I think it was courageous of Brett to tackle this issue head-on as he
>> did, and of Victor to respond so positively to the various comments that
>> have been made on this thread. It would be a pity to lose a developer
e a simple bloody
blog entry ...
i-can-say-this-now-the-entry-is-published-ly y'rs - steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python
y prime!
Hey, isn't Ubuntu Debian-based? ...
Don't we know people who work for the vendor? ...
Maybe they could offer some support if we switched? ...
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenw
Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Jan 3, 2009, at 11:29 PM, Steve Holden wrote:
>
>> Brett Cannon wrote:
>> [...]
>>> I have been using bzr for all of my importlib work. It's worked out
>>> well sans the problem that SOMEONE Barry has not
>>> upgrad
upgrade since Red Hat went from HJ Liu libc to glibc
> 2.
Ubuntu is a victim of its own success. They now have to deal with the
same diversity of hardware environments as Windows. I hope that
Canonical will find a way to stabilize things.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden
ny object supporting buffer
> protocol as well as string.
>
> 2) buffer (mmap_obj) gives a read_only buffer. There should be a way to make
> this read_write.
>
> 3) mmap_obj does not support weak ref.
>
Can you add these to the tracker as a feature request, please?
rega
ed him before he
>>> agreed?
>> Anthony and I have just had so much fun whitewashing the last few
>> releases, we just couldn't in good conscious keep it to ourselves!
> ^
> That proves my point, I think. ;-)
No, that demonstr
d it" they
will not come unless and until they are led by the nose.
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
___
Python-Dev mailing list
Python-Dev@python.org
ht
gt; right away.
>
> There is also
>
> http://wiki.python.org/moin/Early2to3Migrations
>
> although I'm not sure how useful this is (if the "upstream" package
> supports 3.0, and is listed in PyPI, then the PyPI listing is better.
> This page might help to collect
the other end might come back up
> between SYN's. How often could that possibly happen?
>
When I read it I was tempted to observe they must have been testing
Microsoft network services. It is a truly bizarre rationalization of a
default that appears to have been taken from DOS-era netwo
you
need to ensure that various services can be separately authorized -
someone may have permission to log in to one server but not others?
regards
Steve
--
Steve Holden+1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
__
around to implementing Python 3? Clearly (since both teams
are already committed to implementing it) the more we can do to
accommodate them the better it will be for cross-implementation
compatibility. Or did I miss something?
You are, of course, free to make whatever assumptions you like about the
en
but it's still a good goal in the cases where it *is* possible.
Given that your sample code will generally work even for implementations
where garbage collection is used rather than reference counting I fail
to understand why you insist so hard that a more restrictive rule should
be implemented.
givable
>> sin in a small program that opens a few files only. It only becomes a
>> program when this is itself inside a loop that loops over many
>> filenames -- you could run out of file descriptors.
>
> I do understand this, but I'm sure you realize that there other
1301 - 1400 of 1536 matches
Mail list logo
