Re: [Python-Dev] hgeol extension (Was: Mercurial migration: help needed)

2009-09-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > This is what I refer to as YAGNI. Subversion has LF as the internal > storage, and, IIRC, so does CVS. I don't think there is any precedence > for wanting something else - and frankly, I can't see how repository > storage would matter. Well, internally you could us

Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed

2009-09-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Dirkjan Ochtman writes: > On 05/09/2009 16:59, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > git has a nice filter-branch command, which would allow you to > > automatically repair the problem (it works basically by checking out > > each changeset and rerecording it with the appr

Re: [Python-Dev] Mercurial migration: help needed

2009-09-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Paul Moore writes: > The result is that user workspaces *may* (quite probably, will) > contain files with a mixture of line endings if care is not taken. Yes. Under your "fixed-EOL-files-are-binary" scheme, this is guaranteed for Unix systems. > As regards (1), I assume that for "text" files

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Speaking as a non-network specialist, it actually looks logical to > me to be given an address if I iterate over a network (the same way > that, if I iterate on a list, I get individual elements, not > 1-element sublists). But if you iterate over a string you get one

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Scott Dial writes: > ipaddr.IPv4Network('1.1.1.0/24')[0] == ipaddr.IPv4Network('1.1.1.0/24') So foo returns True? def foo(): a = ipaddr.IPv4Network('1.1.1.0/24') return a[0] == a That seems ... weird. Maybe you committed a typo? ___ Python

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
I haven't looked closedly at the reference implementation, and my experience is small. So take this as "POLA to the naive new user of the API" discussion. Scott Dial writes: > This example here solidifies my support of RDM's suggestion of there > being 3 types: > > IPv4Address > IP

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-15 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > > An IPv4Address with 'network' and 'mask' attributes that could be > > None would also not complicate the API, IMO, and would handle both > > of these use cases. > > But it would be confusing and conceptually bizarre, because an address (in > usually accepted termi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Andrew McNamara writes: > As the module stands, we have a pair of address-without-mask classes > called *Address, and a pair of address-with-mask classes called > *Network. So, sometimes when you want to record an *address* you use > a class called Network, and that class comes with a behaviou

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Andrew McNamara writes: > Conceptually, you sometimes need a bare address, and other times, > you need an address with an associated network (host interface > configs, router configs, etc). By AddressWithMask, I really mean > AddressWithEnoughInformationToDeriveNetworkWhenNeeded. Conveniently,

Re: [Python-Dev] POSIX [Fuzziness in io module specs]

2009-09-18 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > James Y Knight fuhm.net> writes: > > > > Why are you just making things up? There is a *vast* amount of > > precedent for how file operations should work. Python should follow > > that precedent and do like POSIX unless there's a compelling reason > > not to.

Re: [Python-Dev] POSIX [Fuzziness in io module specs]

2009-09-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > I don't believe that POSIX compliance is a sufficient argument to ask > someone to shut up in the discussion of a cross-platform API. Which is > more or less what James' answer was trying to do. No, as I read it, James said, "when there's precedent, even a standard,

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils ML wrap-up: setup.cfg new format

2009-09-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: > OK, stop before it gets any nastier as your email already sounds > rude Rude, yes, but not entirely lacking in truth. Tarek's post to Python- Dev *is* a mess from the point of view of English and organization -- it's *way* below Tarek's normal command of the language. G

Re: [Python-Dev] Distutils ML wrap-up: setup.cfg new format

2009-09-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tarek Ziadé writes: > On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > At the very least, that would have kept this discussion on Distutils- > > SIG, and Chris couldn't be accused of trying to make an end run around > > that process.  I suggest

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > There was a proposal to have a separate parse_address_and_mask > method which would return a (Address, Network) tuple, I still don't > know why you don't seem to consider it seriously, rather than > trying to make the Network class a kind of all-in-one type > conflati

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido van Rossum writes: > I don't doubt that Peter has a use case for denormalized IPNetwork > objects. If you know what it is, would you please describe it, or say "that's proprietary"? Peter hasn't done either, despite repeated requests. > I do note that if Peter's use case is at all comm

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Let me first say that the module is overall quite nice; the implementation seems concise and very efficient, and the API is well-balanced. I'm sorry there's been such controversy (and for my part in it, as I managed to completely misunderstand what you absolutely require), when AFAICT the only "li

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg Ewing writes: > Peter Moody wrote: > > > I've mentioned at least once (and others have mentioned as well) that > > it's very common, when describing the ip address/prefix of a NIC to > > write, "192.168.1.100/24" > > Yes, but if you want to *retain* all of that information, > the obj

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Peter Moody writes: > >  > this is interesting. I would be open to doing this and making __lt__, > >  > __gt__, __eq__ and friends do the non-ip comparing by default. would > >  > this be sufficient or does the fact that the network has the .ip > >  > attribute break something pythonic? > >

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Mark Dickinson writes: > >> Please could someone who understands the uses of IPNetwork > >> better than I do explain why the following wouldn't be a > >> significant problem, if __eq__ and __hash__ were modified to > >> disregard the .ip attribute as suggested: > > linus = IPv4Network('1

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-09-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Daniel Stutzbach writes: > People have voiced support for the IPNetwork class The obvious use cases are 1. parsing and validating strings that purport to describe networks, 2. providing a received for the result of a function that deduces the network from an arbitrary address and a mask

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3144 review.

2009-10-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Nick Coghlan writes: > However, while I'd still be a little happier if the .ip attribute > went away all together and another means was found to conveniently > associate an IPAddress and an IPNetwork, keeping it doesn't bother > me anywhere near as much as having network equivalence defined in

Re: [Python-Dev] Package install failures in 2.6.3

2009-10-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tarek Ziadé writes: > Maybe I should blog a summary of the situation and post it to > python annoucement as well. Please don't. It's unlikely to do anything except incite a lot of flames. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail

[Python-Dev] comments vs spam in PyPI [was: eggs now mandatory for pypi?]

2009-10-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Guido van Rossum python.org> writes: > > > > There are plenty of things we > > can learn about fighting spam and other forms of vandalism from other > > areas of the social web, including our very own wiki, and other wikis > > (WikiPedia survives despite spam). >

[Python-Dev] Top-posting on this list

2009-10-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: > On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:32, Michael Foord wrote: > > Sorry for top-posting, mobile device. Michael, I for one *very much* appreciate your courtesy. > Aahz was the most adamant hater of top-posting and he isn't subscribed to > python-dev anymore, so whatever. Please

Re: [Python-Dev] Top-posting on this list

2009-10-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Greg Ewing writes: > That's no reason to squander it, though. Quoting the entire > message every time makes the size of the thread grow as > O(n**2), Agreed, but let's not exaggerate. Threads are finite, so big O is not really relevant. Spam OTOH is boundless, and that's where the bandwidth

Re: [Python-Dev] Top-posting on this list

2009-10-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ben Finney writes: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > > Trimming can be a PITA if you're using a crummy MUA > > How so? It merely requires the ability to navigate up and down by lines, > and to select and delete text. I've used some very crumm

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Package Management Roadmap in Python Releases

2009-10-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Lyon writes: > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:38:26 -0700, Brett Cannon wrote: > > David, you are making a huge leap here thinking that we even want > > a package manager in the stdlib. > > Well - who is 'we'? If it's python-dev people I can accept and > respect that. Yes. The stdlib is a

Re: [Python-Dev] language summit topic: issue tracker

2009-10-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Besides, the more keywords there are, the messier it is. That's what I've found in the XEmacs tracker. Keywords are a reasonable way (in the context of the Roundup implementation) to test new classifications before going to the effort of messing with the page templates.

Re: [Python-Dev] First shot at some_set.get()

2009-10-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven D'Aprano writes: > I'm not being tongue-in-cheek or sarcastic. My question was serious -- > if there is a moratorium, is there any reason to bother submitting > patches for functional changes to built-ins? Yes. Python is open source. Private and public forks are possible and (at lea

Re: [Python-Dev] Retrieve an arbitrary element from a set without removing it

2009-10-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ben Finney writes: > Steven D'Aprano writes: > > "get" is such a generic term that I don't believe that is a problem. > > The problem above is made less problematic by the fact that the function > signature (e.g. 'foo_dict.get(key)') clarifies the answer to the > question "get what?". Wher

Re: [Python-Dev] Retrieve an arbitrary element from a set without removing it

2009-10-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > > res.get() would be a fairly obvious way to do it. Enough that I would > > probably never have gone searching for any of the other answers. Though > > personally, I think I would call it "set.peek()", but the specific name > > doesn't really matter to me. > > So

Re: [Python-Dev] Retrieve an arbitrary element from a set without removing it

2009-10-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
geremy condra writes: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 12:34 PM, average wrote: > > [I wrote:] > >> If Python3 were to have this feature it would make it worth > >> migrating to > > > > Sorry that may have sounded more harsh than I expected.  If I had more > > resources, > This is effectively th

Re: [Python-Dev] Retrieve an arbitrary element from a setwithoutremoving it

2009-10-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven D'Aprano writes: > The usual technique people tend to come up with is: > > x = s.pop() > s.add(x) > > Which strikes many people (including myself) as inelegant. Surely "get > an element" is a more fundamental operation than "get an element and > remove it"? Not in a literal urn

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3003 - Python Language Moratorium

2009-11-03 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido van Rossum writes: > On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 11:23 AM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > One question: > > > > There are currently number of patch waiting on the tracker for > > additional Unicode feature support and it's also likely that we'll > > want to upgrade to a more recent Unicode versi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3003 - Python Language Moratorium

2009-11-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
~b <4222a8490911051521r1b9c8165id6e0f12d62da0...@mail.gmail.com> <48c184130911051555r9a5b78cs3a13cb1345d3c...@mail.gmail.com> <20091106001430.3229.796306500.divmod.xquotient@localhost.localdomain> <4af3cf69.6090...@gmx.net> <20091

Re: [Python-Dev] Replacing IDLE

2009-11-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
anatoly techtonik writes: > Does that mean even if authors of some imaginary editor agree to > incorporate their code into Python, the framework that it is built > upon will have to be incorporated into Python also (and eventually > abandoned at original location)? I would assume so. How els

Re: [Python-Dev] Too many Python accounts

2009-11-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ben Finney writes: > I would make a bug report for that, but the Python bug tracker also > requires yet-another-identity. It's lunacy. No, it's legacy. The software predates the availability of OpenID. If you'd like to integrate Open ID authentication into Roundup, I will personally be happy

Re: [Python-Dev] First draft of "sysconfig"

2009-12-16 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Lyon writes: > I'm not star-gazing, because all these things are already > needed and already being done to some degree in some > organisations. There's already the libraries on pypi for > most of this anyway. Sure. But in a volunteer project, it's beg, buy, or build. Begging has not

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Lyon writes: > > I am just describing the needs and the end user PoV with the reference > > implementation that happens to be used by *all* tools out there. > > That's good. That's what we need right now. Martin's point is that the PEP process doesn't *have* "reference" implementations

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Ben Finney writes: > Instead, the default should be `=='. That is, `Requires-Python: 3' > should be equivalent to `Requires-Python: ==3'; and only "3" or "3.0" or > "3.0.0" etc. will match. I maintain that is what most people will expect > on seeing that syntax. I really don't think your asse

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
david.l...@preisshare.net writes: > >> Before we had : Requires-Python: 2.5, 2.6 > >> > >> That made much more sense. It was simple and unambiguous, and is > >> relevant to typical packaging scenarios. > > > > Unfortunately, it is fairly ambiguous, and makes no sense. It means > > "requires

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
david.l...@preisshare.net writes: > With respect, it's not a very common use case for a developer to > say that package needs a python interpretor 'older' than 2.5. Of course it is. I don't claim it is the majority of cases out there, but stable versions of many of the packages I use will spec

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > > > And in fact this case is often more the important one. Packages that > > depend on having a *recent* version of python will often crash > > quickly, before doing permanent damage, when an undefined syntax, > > function, or method is invoked, while packages that d

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposing PEP 345 : Metadata for Python Software Packages 1.2

2009-12-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > > > > How can they know that they depend on "a quirk in behaviour of an older > > > version" if a newer version hasn't been released? This sounds bogus. > > > > Of course a newer version has been released. Who said it hasn't been? > > Eg, the discussion of <=2.5.

Re: [Python-Dev] Improve open() to support reading file starting with an unicode BOM

2010-01-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido van Rossum writes: > I'm a little hesitant about this. First of all, UTF-8 + BOM is crazy > talk. That doesn't stop many applications from doing it. Python should perhaps not produce UTF-8 + BOM without a disclaimer of indemnification against all resulting damage, signed in blood, from t

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 2.7 alpha 2

2010-01-11 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Neil Schemenauer writes: > On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 09:06:15PM -0800, Brett Cannon wrote: > > If people start taking the carrots we have added to 3.x and > > backporting them to keep the 2.x series alive you are essentially > > making the 3.x DOA by negating its benefits which I personally > >

Re: [Python-Dev] Bazaar branches available (again) on Launchpad

2010-01-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: > (Besides, git in the stdlib doesn't make much sense :). "Dulwich." ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-d

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michael Foord writes: > This is why I'm keen that by *default* Python should honour the UTF8 > signature when reading files; Unfortunately, your caveat about "a lot of the time it will *seem* to work" applies to this as well. The only way that "honoring signatures" really works is if Python

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michael Foord writes: > When reading text files the presence of the UTF-8 signature *almost > invariably* means a UTF-8 encoding. Honouring this will almost always be > better than using the wrong encoding. Of course there are caveats, but > it will be a substantial improvement. Sure, that

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Perhaps you are speaking with your emacs hat, where the purpose is > to output to the same file that serves as input. No, I'm not wearing my Emacs hat. If I was, there would be no problem. You just use binary for most such purposes. Historically that was how even Ema

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull xemacs.org> writes: > > > > But it *does* determine the charset of ErrorDocuments displayed by > > Apache. Users are likely to get somewhat confused if the > > ErrorDocuments are in a different charset from your

Re: [Python-Dev] Proposed downstream change to site.py in Fedora (sys.defaultencoding)

2010-01-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > My bet is that the majority of Python applications written today do > "web" stuff. In the web, input encoding and output encoding are > fairly decorrelated - in particular for databases and files read > from disk. Sure. Which means that programmers have to do a lo

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah Carlson writes: > Lisp lists are really stacks No, they're really (ie, concretely) singly-linked lists. Now, stacks are an abstract data type, and singly-linked lists provide an efficient implementation of stacks. But that's not what linked lists "really are". For example, singly-lin

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-29 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah Carlson writes: > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:57 PM, Steve Howell wrote: > > What do you think of LISP, and "car" in particular (apart from > > the stupidly cryptic name)? > Apples and oranges. True, but speaking of Lisp lists, here's some possibly relevant experience. About 10 years

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Josiah Carlson writes: > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 11:31 PM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > Some people complained, but we considered this well worthwhile (moving > > one "type bit" from the car to the header allowed Lisp integers to > > cover the

Re: [Python-Dev] patch to make list.pop(0) work in O(1) time

2010-01-30 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Minor erratum: Stephen J. Turnbull writes: > Emacs hasn't made that choice, XEmacs did. I believe Emacs is still > "restricted" to 128MB, or maybe 256MB, buffers. They recently had an > opportunity to increase integer size, and thus maximum buffer size, > but

Re: [Python-Dev] Reworking the GIL

2010-02-02 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Yes, I hindsight I think Guido was right. Guido does too. One of the benefits of having a time machine is getting to turn your hindsight into foresight. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.6.5

2010-02-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > Besides, as Barry said, classifying a bug as blocker is also a good way > to attract some attention on it. Other classifications, even "critical", > don't have the same effect. If done for the sole purpose of attracting attention, it's no different from spam. Opinions

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.6.5

2010-02-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
anatoly techtonik writes: > Is it possible to make exploits out of crashers? Depends on how you define "exploit". If your definition includes denial of service, yes, crashing a server application would count. Privilege escalation is harder to achieve. The general answer is "yes", but each cas

Re: [Python-Dev] Desired changes to Hg emails to python-checkins

2010-03-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brett Cannon writes: > I prefer the subject so that I can easily skim them to see if someone edited > a file I really care about, but if that is not possible then the body is > acceptable, especially if it is the first thing in the body (that would let > me at least see some of it in the initi

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEP 3148] futures - execute computations asynchronously

2010-03-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Guido van Rossum writes: > "Future" is a pretty standard CS term for this concept (as noted > "promise" is another), I like the term "promise" better. "Future" is very generic ("not now, but later"), whereas a "promise" is something I don't get from you now, but you will give me later. The wi

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEP 3148] futures - execute computations asynchronously

2010-03-05 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
exar...@twistedmatrix.com writes: > The "explicit" futures on the wikipedia page seems to cover what is > commonly referred to as a future. For example, Java's futures look like > this. > > The "implicit" futures are what is generally called a promise. For > example, E's promises look

Re: [Python-Dev] [PEP 3148] futures - execute computations asynchronously

2010-03-06 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Jeffrey Yasskin writes: > It seems like a good idea to follow the choice other languages have > used for the name (if they tend to agree) For the record, I've conceded that point. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.o

Re: [Python-Dev] Mixing float and Decimal -- thread reboot

2010-03-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven D'Aprano writes: > As usual though, NANs are unintuitive: > > >>> d = {float('nan'): 1} > >>> d[float('nan')] = 2 > >>> d > {nan: 1, nan: 2} > > > I suspect that's a feature, not a bug. I don't see how it can be so. Aren't all of those entries garbage? To compute a histogram o

Re: [Python-Dev] Mixing float and Decimal -- thread reboot

2010-03-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Mark Dickinson writes: > On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull > wrote: > > Steven D'Aprano writes: > >  > I suspect that's a feature, not a bug. > > Right: distinct nans (i.e., those with different id()) are treated as > distin

Re: [Python-Dev] __pycache__ creation

2010-03-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Barry Warsaw writes: > On Mar 24, 2010, at 11:06 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > >Ah yes, the recollection of seeing such a message is now quite fresh in > >my mind :) > > Just don't tell Guido I borrowed his time machine keys! Wouldn't that be preferable to revealing you've learned to hotwire

Re: [Python-Dev] Why is nan != nan?

2010-03-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven D'Aprano writes: > But unlike us, the equality operator only has a pinhole view of the > operands. It can't distinguish between your example and this: > > x = float('nan') > y = some_complex_calculation(x) > if x == y: > ... > > where y merely happens to end up with the same

Re: [Python-Dev] GSoC 2010 is on -- projects?

2010-03-31 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
anatoly techtonik writes: > I would vote for allowing student work on community infrastructure > tasks. Tracker, Wiki, Web site management tools are all outdated and > everybody who cares agrees that they've seen a better tools. I've also seen *much* worse tools in actual use. You don't have

Re: [Python-Dev] Odd lines in unicodedata_db.h

2010-04-04 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Amaury Forgeot d'Arc writes: > I don't think so. Unicode 3.2 did contain two entries with large > numeric values. The file Unihan-3.2.0.txt contains these two > lines: > > U+4EAC kPrimaryNumeric 10,000,000,000,000,000 ten quadrillion > (American) > U+5793 kPrimaryNumeric 100,

[Python-Dev] iso-2022 and issue 7472: question for the experts

2010-04-07 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
R. David Murray writes: > A long time ago (in a galaxy far far...no, wrong show) > > Er, as I was saying, a long time ago Barry applied a patch to > email that went more or less like this: > > ndex: email/Encoders.py > === >

Re: [Python-Dev] OS information, tags

2010-04-13 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Nick Coghlan writes: > they're available? Or even a separate OS field with "Windows, Mac OS X, > Linux, *BSD, Other" as the options? XEmacs has a multilink field "platform". The default is "Any or all" (mislabeled N/A), and values include hardware (currently x86, PPC, other), OS (POSIX, Window

Re: [Python-Dev] Automatic installer builds (was Re: Fwd: Broken link to download (Mac OS X))

2010-04-14 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Bill Janssen writes: > > Fink or MacPorts are often a practical necessity. > > Fink is deadly, MacPorts much more benign, in my experience. Which is > several years out-of-date, before I realized I didn't need either one of > them, and before the UNIX community started adding configure patc

Re: [Python-Dev] Python 2.7b1 and argparse's version action

2010-04-20 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tobias Herp writes: > (we use Python because it is convenient!), Speak for yourself, I want no part of that "we". I use Python because it's well defined and well documented and makes sense and provides powerful operations and runs quickly enough in those applications where I use it. The fact t

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dangerjim to do triage.

2010-04-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Tres Seaver writes: > I think there is a definite "unpriced externality" to keeping the > process barriers high here. The proposed trial period is not a high barrier, except to those who really didn't want to being doing the work anyway. Note that There is also an externality to having account

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dangerjim to do triage.

2010-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: > I'd say there is something wrong with the process. If a trusted > developer can't get somebody more privilege on the tracker by > saying that "I trust this guy", then a new process is needed. > That's it's too hard to get privileges in the Python development > commun

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for "dangerjim" to do triage.

2010-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Terry Reedy writes: > As said above, the need to do this should be fixed. In the meantime, if > people really care about having 'no selection' replaced by 'normal', I > could do more. I have not bothered because I regard the two as synonyms > and have not bothered. Technically they're very

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dangerjim to do triage.

2010-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steve Holden writes: > Yes, in the last year in particular there has been some excellent effort > of maintaining the issue tracker content. But the question still remains > - who are we worried about offending? In this thread, we did worry about offending Sean and dangerjim. Now that Sean has

Re: [Python-Dev] merit

2010-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 20:30, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > In an open source community, "merit" relates to that community. > > We don't give Linus Torvalds all rights on the project just > > because we know (or assume ;-)) he is tremendously competent. > > Well, tha

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dangerjim to do triage.

2010-04-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: > > Sure, but that's still *work*, and it's work for *somebody else*. > > Yes, but only when the checkin was wrong. For all other checkins, it's > *less* work. Hence, a committer needs to basically fudge up every > second checkin to cause more work than he relieves wo

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dange rjim to do triage.

2010-04-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Steven D'Aprano writes: > As I see it, the two camps are divided purely on the question of how to > get increased privileges. As I see it, the division is over what constitutes merit, and how it is created or improved. > Both sides agree that merit is a requirement, but the disagreement > i

Re: [Python-Dev] Make 'normal' the default tracker priority level

2010-04-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
"Martin v. Löwis" writes: > > > When I open http://bugs.python.org/iss...@template=item > > priority is (still) set at no selection. Is this my local cache (which I > > do not know how to clear in FF) or is 'normal' filled in after submission? > > It is filled in after submission. You stil

Re: [Python-Dev] Enhanced tracker privileges for dangerjim to do?triage.

2010-04-28 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
A.M. Kuchling writes: > True. This makes me wonder if we should be data-mining the tracker > information to look for significant contributors that no one has > noticed. It's an interesting idea. But I've done something similar to this, ad hoc[1], a few times in XEmacs, and it has never worke

[Python-Dev] urlparse.urlunsplit should be smarter about +

2010-05-08 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Abrahams writes: > > This is a bug report. bugs.python.org seems to be down. > > >>> from urlparse import * > >>> urlunsplit(urlsplit('git+file:///foo/bar/baz')) > git+file:/foo/bar/baz > > Note the dropped slashes after the colon. That's clearly wrong, but what does "+" ha

Re: [Python-Dev] urlparse.urlunsplit should be smarter about +

2010-05-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
John Arbash Meinel writes: > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > David Abrahams writes: > > > > > > This is a bug report. bugs.python.org seems to be down. > > > > > > >>> from urlparse import * > > > >>> urlunsp

Re: [Python-Dev] urlparse.urlunsplit should be smarter about +

2010-05-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
David Abrahams writes: > At Sat, 08 May 2010 11:04:47 -0500, > John Arbash Meinel wrote: > > Don't you need to register the "git+file:///" url for urlparse to > > properly split it? > > Yes. But the question is whether urlparse should really be so fragile > that every hierarchical scheme

Re: [Python-Dev] urlparse.urlunsplit should be smarter about +

2010-05-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Senthil Kumaran writes: > Not all urls have the 'authority' component after the scheme. (sip > based urls for e.g) urlparse differentiates those by maintaining a > list of scheme names which will follow the pattern of parsing, and > joining for the urls which have a netloc (or authority compo

Re: [Python-Dev] urlparse.urlunsplit should be smarter about +

2010-05-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Senthil Kumaran writes: > I should have said, 'treatment of urls with authority' and 'treatment > of urls without authority' in terms of parsing and joining is as per > RFC. How it is doing practically is by maintaining a list of urls > with known scheme names which use_netloc. Why do that i

Re: [Python-Dev] Possible patch for functools partial - Interested?

2010-05-12 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lie Ryan writes: > it disappoints me this does not compare equal: > > add3 = lambda a, b, c: a + b + c > a = partial(partial(add3, 1), 2) > b = partial(partial(add3, 2), 1) > print a == b > > :-) But it's not even true for floating point. ___ P

[Python-Dev] Reasons behind misleading TypeError message when passing the wrong number of arguments to a method

2010-05-19 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Giampaolo Rodolà writes: > >>> class A: > ... def echo(self, x): > ... return x > ... > >>> a = A() > >>> a.echo() > Traceback (most recent call last): > File "", line 1, in > TypeError: echo() takes exactly 2 arguments (1 given) > >>> > > I bet my last 2 cents this

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement

2010-05-23 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Brian Quinlan writes: > If you are familiar with threads then writing a "good enough" solution > without futures probably won't take you very long. Also, unless you > are familiar with another futures implementation, you aren't likely to > know where to look. That looks like an argument

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement

2010-05-24 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Cameron Simpson writes: > There's a lot to be said for a robust implementation of a well defined > problem. Brian's module, had it been present and presuming it robust and > debugged, would have been quite welcome. That, of course, is the consensus view, both in general and with respect to thi

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement

2010-05-25 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Nick Coghlan writes: > Those that say "just put it on PyPI" Nobody is saying that, AFAICS. Nobody is saying that *some* futures module shouldn't *eventually* go into the stdlib. The question is whether *this* futures module should go into the stdlib *now*. And it is clear that more time on Py

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 3148 ready for pronouncement

2010-05-26 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Nick Coghlan writes: > On 26/05/10 13:51, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > People have been asking "what's special about this module, to violate > > the BCP principle?" There's nothing special about the fact that > > several people would use a &

Re: [Python-Dev] Sumo

2010-05-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Paul Moore writes: > On 27 May 2010 00:11, geremy condra wrote: > > I'm not clear, you seem to be arguing that there's a market for many > > augmented python distributions but not one. Why not just have one > > that includes the best from each domain? > > Because that's "bloat". You later a

Re: [Python-Dev] Sumo

2010-05-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: > One worry with an official sumo distribution is that it could become > an excuse for *not* putting something in the stdlib. > Otherwise it's an interesting idea. On the contrary, that is the meat of why it's an interesting idea. I really don't think the proponents o

Re: [Python-Dev] Sumo

2010-05-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Lennart Regebro writes: > If licensing is a problem I guess you'd need to have permission to > relicense them all to the Python license, Licensing compatibility is only a problem for copyleft, but most copyleft licenses have "mere aggregation is not derivation" clauses. Corporate concern about

Re: [Python-Dev] Sumo

2010-05-27 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Michael Foord writes: > To my mind one of the most important benefits of a "sumo" style > distribution is not just that it easily provides a whole bunch of useful > modules - but that it *highlights* which modules are the community > blessed "best of breed". That has several problems. (1)

Re: [Python-Dev] Future of 2.x.

2010-06-09 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Chris McDonough writes: > It might be useful to copy the identifiers and URLs of all the backport > request tickets into some other repository, or to create some unique > state in roundup for these. A keyword would do. Please don't add a status or something like that, though. __

Re: [Python-Dev] Reintroduce or drop completly hex, bz2, rot13, ... codecs

2010-06-10 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Antoine Pitrou writes: > In which cases is this true? Hex is rarely used for ASCII-encoding of > binary data, precisely because its efficiency is poor. MIME quoted-printable, URL-quoting, and XBM come to mind. ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@p

Re: [Python-Dev] email package status in 3.X

2010-06-17 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
l...@rmi.net writes: > FWIW, after rewriting Programming Python for 3.1, 3.x still feels > a lot like a beta to me, almost 2 years after its release. Email, of course, is a big wart. But guess what? Python 2's email module doesn't actually work! Sure, the program runs most of the time, but e

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