Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 14417: consequences of new dict runtime error

2012-03-30 Thread R. David Murray
this bug or not... OK, that seems to be the source of your confusion, then. This has nothing to do with PEP-416. We are talking about issue Issue 14417 (like it says in the subject), which in turn is a reaction to the fix for issue 14205. --David __

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 418: Add monotonic clock

2012-03-30 Thread R. David Murray
turnip, > watch > > I wonder if something with tick would work? (Even though it returns a float. > :-) > > If all else fails, I'd go with turnip. We could call it "alice"[*]: sometimes it goes fast, sometimes it goes slow, sometimes it even goes backward, but

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 14417: consequences of new dict runtime error

2012-03-31 Thread R. David Murray
again: issue 14417 has *nothing* to do with immutable dicts. Please carefully read over issue 14205 in order to understand what we are talking about so that you can contribute to the discussion. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org htt

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 14417: consequences of new dict runtime error

2012-03-31 Thread R. David Murray
ith leaving the RuntimeError as a signal that the application needs to add some locking. My concern was that we'd have working production code that would start breaking. If it takes a *lot* of threads or a *lot* of mutation to trigger it, then it is going to be a

Re: [Python-Dev] .{git,bzr}ignore in cpython HG repo

2012-04-02 Thread R. David Murray
I think he does use hg now for cpython development.) I think Benjamin was the one who used git, but I'm probably misremembering. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 418: rename time.monotonic() to time.steady()?

2012-04-03 Thread R. David Murray
ects the various arguments. Then we can bikeshed some more based on the language in the PEP :) --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/py

Re: [Python-Dev] Failed issue tracker submission

2012-04-04 Thread R. David Murray
ld also occur during normal web submissions if they happen to happen at the same time, which is a little bit worrisome. If anyone has any Xapien experience and would be willing to help out with debugging this and/or some indexing issues, please let me know :) --David ___

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #3033: Add displayof parameter to tkinter font.

2012-04-05 Thread R. David Murray
on the task would then do a rewrite, asking you questions to fill in any details that aren't clear from the rough draft. Thank, you, by the way, for all the work you are doing. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #3033: Add displayof parameter to tkinter font.

2012-04-05 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 17:34:07 +0300, Andrew Svetlov wrote: > Thank you, David. > Is separate repo clone located at hg.python.org good enough? Or maybe > there are better way to do it? That sounds like a good plan to me. --David ___ Python-De

Re: [Python-Dev] an alternative to embedding policy in PEP 418 (was: PEP 418: Add monotonic clock)

2012-04-05 Thread R. David Murray
function) that just returns True or False? Maybe we do, if actually creating the clock could raise an error even if exists, as is the case for 'open'. (But unless I'm confused none of this has anything to do with Victor's PEP as currently proposed :) --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #3033: Add displayof parameter to tkinter font.

2012-04-07 Thread R. David Murray
est place for a delete request. If this becomes a burden at some point, someone will figure out a secure way to automate it...security is the reason it isn't automated now. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: #14533: if a test has no test_main, use loadTestsFromModule.

2012-04-09 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 13:34:25 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 4/9/2012 9:13 AM, r.david.murray wrote: > > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/eff551437abd > > changeset: 76176:eff551437abd > > user:R David Murray > > date:Mon Apr 09 08:55:42 2012 -0

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 418 glossary

2012-04-12 Thread R. David Murray
inherent ambiguity in what the term means. If you use it to measure an interval, then I think most people would agree automatically that it is equivalent to "real time". But outside of interval measurement, there is ambiguity. So I think the definition in the PEP is correct. --Dav

[Python-Dev] tracker searches fixed

2012-04-13 Thread R. David Murray
For those of you who had noticed that since the upgrade the tracker search hasn't been returning a complete set of hits on typical searches, this should now be fixed. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] importlib is now bootstrapped (and what that means)

2012-04-16 Thread R. David Murray
emi-readable code, surely we do have source code for the pre-frozen module, and it is just a matter of convincing hg that the bytecode is binary, not text? Brett's earlier thought of compiling from source as a *fallback* makes sense to me. I'd rather not add overhead to startup that we c

Re: [Python-Dev] importlib is now bootstrapped (and what that means)

2012-04-16 Thread R. David Murray
impression is that our usual solution for this is to make sure the timestamps are correct in distributed tarballs, so that the hg-dependent machinery is not invoked when building from a release tarball. Is this case any different? --David ___ Pytho

Re: [Python-Dev] importlib is now bootstrapped (and what that means)

2012-04-17 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:11:14 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote: > On 16.04.2012 18:15, R. David Murray wrote: > > I don't see how depending on Cython is better than depending on having > > an existing Python. > > No, it's not just an existing Python, it is (at least c

Re: [Python-Dev] Suggested addition to PEP 8 for context managers

2012-04-17 Thread R. David Murray
le that way, factor it out. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 418: Add monotonic time, performance counter and process time functions

2012-04-17 Thread R. David Murray
d is smaller than the clock accuracy, you want the number of bits. (Yes, I'm using accuracy in a slightly different sense here...I think we don't have the right words for this.) To use other words, what the users cares about are the error bars on the returned result. --David _

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Fix email post-commit review comments.

2012-04-18 Thread R. David Murray
We're seeing segfuilts on the buildbots now. Example: http://www.python.org/dev/buildbot/all/builders/x86%20Ubuntu%20Shared%203.x/builds/5715 On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 23:39:34 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On Wed, Apr 18, 2012 at 11:31 PM, brian.curtin > wrote: > > -    if (name == NULL) > > +  

Re: [Python-Dev] webbrowser no longer support 'internet-config' on Mac

2012-04-18 Thread R. David Murray
Please submit a bug report at bugs.python.org. Bugs posted to this mailing list tend to get forgotten unless a tracker issue is created. On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 20:54:28 +0800, Leo wrote: > The doc says supported as in > http://docs.python.org/library/webbrowser.html > > but the code has been delet

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 418: Add monotonic time, performance counter and process time functions

2012-04-18 Thread R. David Murray
tandard definitions in US English that I learned in physics > and statistics decades ago. My problem was that I was confusing this definition of precision with the "precision" of the computer representation of the number (that is, the number of digits in the returned result). --

Re: [Python-Dev] Cython for cPickle?

2012-04-19 Thread R. David Murray
some core developers (present or future) would prefer to learn Cython over learning C [*]. --David [*] For this you may actually want to read "learning to modify the Python C codebase", since in fact I know how to program in C, I just prefer to do as little of it as possible, and so haven&#

Re: [Python-Dev] Failed issue tracker submission

2012-04-20 Thread R. David Murray
mail address associated with the hg update email is python-dev, the bounce gets sent here. There are currently only three people who do maintenance work on the tracker (it used to be just one), and none of us have found time to try to figure out a fix yet. --David

Re: [Python-Dev] Expose dictproxy through collections rather than the types module?

2012-04-21 Thread R. David Murray
ontainer types at the top of the collections module docs The short answer is yes, someone would mind, which is why it is where it is. Read the ticket for more: http://bugs.python.org/issue14386. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-De

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Implement PEP 412: Key-sharing dictionaries (closes #13903)

2012-04-23 Thread R. David Murray
7;m pretty sure that anything heavily using sqlalchemy will benefit, so that would be a good place to look for a real-world benchmark. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsu

Re: [Python-Dev] Is it safe to assume that Python 2.7 is always built with unicode support?

2012-04-26 Thread R. David Murray
On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 17:07:46 +0200, Stefano Taschini wrote: > May I suggest that http://bugs.python.org/issue8767 be reopened, to make > things clear? Done. --David PS: we prefer no top-posting on this list. It makes it far easier to retain just enough context to make a message stand

Re: [Python-Dev] sys.implementation

2012-04-27 Thread R. David Murray
work in progress. There are, by the way, many things documented in the "library" documentation that are in fact provided by the language implementation itself. All of the fundamental types, for example. --David (*) the Oracle lawyers sometimes seem to be trying to get the judge and jury

Re: [Python-Dev] package imports, sys.path and os.chdir()

2012-04-28 Thread R. David Murray
d). I don't know why I wouldn't have expected it to work, I just didn't. That said, could this insertion of '' only happen when the interactive prompt is actually posted, and otherwise use cwd? --David ___ Python-Dev mailing lis

Re: [Python-Dev] Email6 status (was Open PEPs and large-scale changes for 3.3)

2012-05-01 Thread R. David Murray
be considered provisional and subject to improvement in 3.4 based on what we learn by having it actually out there in the field and getting tested. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Does trunk still support any compilers that *don't* allow declaring variables after code?

2012-05-02 Thread R. David Murray
gled variable declarations and code"? Do we *unofficially* > > > support any? And if we do, what do we gain? > > > > Well, there's this one called MSVC, which we support quite officially. > > Not sure if comic genius or can't rhyme. I had trouble with that

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding types.build_class for 3.3

2012-05-09 Thread R. David Murray
ng terminology than > dynamic type creation. Yeah, but that's the statement form. I think of the characters in the .py file as the definition. If I'm creating a class dynamically...I'm creating(*) it, not defining it. I don't think it's a big deal, though. Either

Re: [Python-Dev] Allow use of sphinx-autodoc in the standard library documentation?

2012-05-10 Thread R. David Murray
sphinx docs should be the more expansive version of the documentation. Yes, this creates a double-maintenance burden, and the two sometimes slip of of sync. But it is a long-standing rule and will doubtless require considerable bikeshedding if we want to change it

Re: [Python-Dev] Adding types.build_class for 3.3

2012-05-11 Thread R. David Murray
te an "inner loop", but it isn't an outer one either. That said, the header parsing logic that is also invoked by the process of returning a header under the new policy is going to outweigh the class construction overhead, I'm pretty sure. --David _

Re: [Python-Dev] C-level duck typing

2012-05-17 Thread R. David Murray
definition pushing the limits of what's possible. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Email6 status

2012-05-20 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:55:03 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On May 01, 2012, at 10:40 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > >I guess it's time to talk about my plans for this one :) > > Thanks for the update RDM. I really wish I had more time to contribute to > email6, but I

Re: [Python-Dev] docs.python.org pointing to Python 3 by default?

2012-05-21 Thread R. David Murray
The fact that none of us knew about it may say something about its effectiveness, though. As long as it does exist, there ought to be a parallel docs2.python.org. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/l

Re: [Python-Dev] docs.python.org pointing to Python 3 by default?

2012-05-21 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 21 May 2012 11:19:56 -0400, David Malcolm wrote: > On Fri, 2012-05-18 at 14:24 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: > > At what point should we cut over docs.python.org to point to the Python 3 > > documentation by default? Wouldn't this be an easy bit to flip in order to >

Re: [Python-Dev] possible bug in distutils (Mingw32CCompiler)?

2012-05-24 Thread R. David Murray
n > email. The relevant people will be notified or assigned if a bug is > entered. It was already reported by someone else: http://bugs.python.org/issue12641 --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: #12586: add provisional email policy with new header parsing and folding.

2012-05-26 Thread R. David Murray
On Sat, 26 May 2012 09:14:07 +0200, Georg Brandl wrote: > Am 26.05.2012 00:44, schrieb r.david.murray: > > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/0189b9d2d6bc > > changeset: 77148:0189b9d2d6bc > > user:R David Murray > > date:Fri May 25 18:42:14 2012 -040

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #14744: Fix compilation on Windows (part 2)

2012-05-30 Thread R. David Murray
t run the unittests either. > There are crash bugs in the release build and I wanted to repro it using the > debug version , but failed. > This is likely to be related to the virtualenv changes, perhaps. > see http://bugs.python.org/issue14952 The &q

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Make parameterized tests in email less hackish.

2012-05-31 Thread R. David Murray
escribed approach), I believe that > last sentence should be: > > "The full name of a generated test is a 'test_' prefix, the portion > of the test function name after the '_as_' separator, plus an '_', > plus the name derived as explained above.&quo

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.2): #14957: clarify splitlines docs.

2012-06-01 Thread R. David Murray
returns ``['ab c\n', '\n, 'de fg\r', 'kl\r\n']``. > > s/splinelines/splitlines/ Oops. > Maybe also show what split() would do for that string? I'd rather not, since the split examples are just above it in the docs. --David

Re: [Python-Dev] Daily reference leaks (d9b7399d9e45): sum=462

2012-06-04 Thread R. David Murray
g 6 repetitions > 123456 > .. > test_smtplib leaked [154, 154, 154] references, sum=462 Gah. Looks like a copy and paste error by one of the many people (including me) who contributed to the last smtpd patch. Should be fixed by 079c1942eedf. --David ___

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] peps: Add PEP 422: Dynamic Class Decorators

2012-06-05 Thread R. David Murray
ecorators.extend(cls.__dict__.get("__decorators__", ()) > # Apply the decorators in "Last In, First Out" order, just like > unwinding a chain of super() calls > for deco in reversed(decorators): > cls = deco(cls) Assuming I got this right (no guarantees

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-05 Thread R. David Murray
ith no information about what timezone it originated from (coded as - per RFC 5322), while an aware datetime will generate an accurate offset (+ for "really UTC", and as appropriate for others). So in some sense I've already nudged the stdlib in this direction...unless I get o

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.2): #14957: clarify splitlines docs.

2012-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
't think we currently actually test the doctests in the python docs and (2) I'm following the style of the surrounding text (the split examples just above this are in the same inline style. Oh, and (3) it would make the text longer, which could be considered a nega

Re: [Python-Dev] Updated PEP 362 (Function Signature Object)

2012-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
ing with read-only because it is easy to make them mutable later but pretty much impossible (backward compatibility wise) to make them immutable if they start mutable. I see the signature object as a very parallel case to this, except that it is already obvious that having them be a mutable copy

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 362 Second Revision

2012-06-07 Thread R. David Murray
k you meant __str__ = __repr__. __repr__ is the more fundamental of the two, and if there is no __str__, it defaults to __repr__. IMO the __repr__ should make it clear that it is a signature object somehow. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@py

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython (3.2): #14957: clarify splitlines docs.

2012-06-08 Thread R. David Murray
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 07:20:55 -0400, Tres Seaver wrote: > On 06/07/2012 08:55 AM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 11:08:09 +0100, Sam Partington > > wrote: > > >> Wouldn't that be better written as a doctest and so avoid any other > >> typ

Re: [Python-Dev] backporting stdlib 2.7.x from pypy to cpython

2012-06-08 Thread R. David Murray
. And yes, I agree with your understanding that fixing tests (especially for things like resources not getting cleaned up correctly) is appreciated for the 2.7 tests. We should of course verify whether or not similar changes are needed for Python3. As for path to get them in...if you have any questio

Re: [Python-Dev] TZ-aware local time

2012-06-11 Thread R. David Murray
the email package, I need a way to get from 'now' to an RFC 5322 date/time string, and whatever that way is it needs to (1) be unambiguous what time in what timzeone offset it is when the user passes it to me, and (2) it needs to interoperate with date/time+timezone-offset that is obta

Re: [Python-Dev] #12982: Should -O be required to *read* .pyo files?

2012-06-13 Thread R. David Murray
cal reason I can see why -O should be required for a .pyo file to be used (*if* it is the only thing around) is if it won't *run* without the -O switch. Is there any expectation that that will ever be the case? On the other hand, not wanting make any extra effort to support sourceless distri

Re: [Python-Dev] #12982: Should -O be required to *read* .pyo files?

2012-06-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:20:24 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 01:58:10PM -0400, R. David Murray wrote: > > > > OK, but you didn't answer the question :). If I understand correctly, > > everything you said applies to *writing* the bytecode, not r

Re: [Python-Dev] #12982: Should -O be required to *read* .pyo files?

2012-06-13 Thread R. David Murray
On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 20:46:50 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:20:24 -0700 > Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 01:58:10PM -0400, R. David Murray wrote: > > > > > > OK, but you didn't answer the question :). If I underst

Re: [Python-Dev] #12982: Should -O be required to *read* .pyo files?

2012-06-13 Thread R. David Murray
debug__ setting is supposed to be process-global Both of these are good reasons. IMO the issue should be closed with a documentation fix, which could optionally include either or both of the above motivations. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing

Re: [Python-Dev] deprecating .pyo and -O

2012-06-14 Thread R. David Murray
n normal and -OO is around a 10% savings (about 2MB) in program DATA size at startup, and that makes a difference for an ap running in a memory constrained environment. A docstring stripper would enable the bulk of that savings, but it is still nice to be able to omit code (such as debug log

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (2.7): Issue #15060: fix typo in socket doc; Patch by anatoly techtonik

2012-06-14 Thread R. David Murray
's ear, "integral port number" sounds wrong, probably because the port number has to be an integer, so it sounds like saying "an integral integer". The important thing the doc needs to convey is that the *port* argument actually needs to be an *integer*, as opposed to a string. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 362 Third Revision

2012-06-14 Thread R. David Murray
l parameters that if they occur on the same object at the same time would be invalid is a code smell. If the thing can be one and only one of a list of possible types, it makes sense to me that this be indicated as a single attribute with a list of possible values, rather than a set of

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 362 Third Revision

2012-06-14 Thread R. David Murray
islower :). I'm not going to claim that there was that much foresight in the creation of those two methods. I will, however, note that we aren't perfectly consistent in the application of our rules. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 362 Third Revision

2012-06-15 Thread R. David Murray
ted features. That's a > > perfectly reasonable option. > > What would the validate() function for os.close do? Why would you need one? --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 362: 4th edition

2012-06-15 Thread R. David Murray
s consistency. Without the deepcopy, sometimes what you get back from the inspect function is freely modifiable and sometimes it is not. That inconsistency is a bad thing. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 423 : naming conventions and recipes related to packaging

2012-06-28 Thread R. David Murray
it ends up just getting in the way of wider adoption of the most useful pieces. For what it is worth, notice that perl does not use organization names, it uses functional names. Which languages other than Java use organizational names? --David ___ Python-D

Re: [Python-Dev] PEP 423 : naming conventions and recipes related to packaging

2012-06-28 Thread R. David Murray
re*, only the *forks*. Within the fork, the software itself retains the same name...that's the whole point. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython (2.7): #9559: Append data to single-file mailbox files if messages are only added

2012-06-28 Thread R. David Murray
(). This patch just changed it to not do a full > rewrite when flush() is called. Having a partially written message in > the end of your mailbox doesn't seem like a fatal corruption to me. > > Furthermore, I (and R. David Murray) think this is not so surprising > for users.

Re: [Python-Dev] [pydotorg-www] [Infrastructure] Buildbot master moved

2012-06-28 Thread R. David Murray
x27;s somewhat amusing. Last upgrade, /console made a traceback and /waterfall worked fine, this upgrade it is the reverse. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://m

Re: [Python-Dev] Python-Dev Digest, Vol 108, Issue 14

2012-07-12 Thread R. David Murray
;)' > 100 loops, best of 3: 0.685 usec per loop > > some woman wrote this I don't have any idea what any of your recent posts mean, but this one appears to be offensive. I would appreciate it if you would stop posting until you have something substantive to say, and can do s

Re: [Python-Dev] cpython: Issue #15168: Move importlb.test to test.test_importlib.

2012-07-20 Thread R. David Murray
aking for myself, but I really have trouble > parsing non-trivial relative imports, and I personally prefer when > people use absolute imports (e.g. "from test import support"). Agreed. I don't see that there is any reason to use relative imports in the stdlib. --D

Re: [Python-Dev] test_hashlib

2012-07-21 Thread R. David Murray
to open an issue for doing that for hashlib, in addition to one for fixing this particular issue with the Python version. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mai

Re: [Python-Dev] 2to3 porting HOWTO: setup.py question

2012-07-22 Thread R. David Murray
for the thing that actually matters, rather than testing a constant with a much broader meaning. Yes, in this case the results are the same, but IMO it is better programming practice to test the thing that actually matters when you can. --David ___ P

Re: [Python-Dev] 2to3 porting HOWTO: setup.py question

2012-07-22 Thread R. David Murray
Benjamin sent me this message separately(*) privately and I responded privately. Here is my response. (*) or his mailer did On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 20:22:50 +0100, Oscar Benjamin wrote: > On 22 July 2012 14:08, R. David Murray wrote: > > > On Sun, 22 Jul 2012 11:21:38 +0300, anato

Re: [Python-Dev] No summary of tracker issues this week?

2012-08-05 Thread R. David Murray
ing overlap in next Friday's report. (Not that that should matter much unless someone is using them to track week-to-week statistics.) --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubs

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Issue #15502: Finish bringing importlib.abc in line with the current

2012-08-11 Thread R. David Murray
I don't know why the Dev Guide says the opposite for :c:func: > and is silent on :meth:.) To clarify: :func: automatically adds the ()s, so if you put them in the source you get double: invalidate_caches()(). As Chris said, use the 'alternate text' form if you want to show a

Re: [Python-Dev] Mountain Lion drops sign of zero, breaks test_cmath...

2012-08-17 Thread R. David Murray
With that applied, all the test_cmath tests pass again (without any > changes to the test file). > > Thoughts? Open an issue on the tracker and make mark.dickinson (and maybe skrah) nosy. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.

Re: [Python-Dev] 3.3 str timings

2012-08-18 Thread R. David Murray
the the time. Another issue or known > and un-fixable? At one point there was an issue with certain spellings taking a fast path (avoiding a codec lookup?) and other spellings not. I thought we'd fixed that, but perhaps we didn't? --David __

Re: [Python-Dev] Raw I/O writelines() broken

2012-08-20 Thread R. David Murray
rites, and to fix RawIO.writelines() to always do complete > writes. I think writelines doing a partial write is counter-intuitive in the Python context (as well as being contrary to the existing documentation), so I think I'd favor this. --David

Re: [Python-Dev] [Python-checkins] cpython: Close #4966: revamp the sequence docs in order to better explain the state of

2012-08-21 Thread R. David Murray
27;foobar' example might make this sentence > > more understandable. > > Added. I think it is an important and subtle point that this happens at "compile time" rather than "run time". Subtle in that it is not at

Re: [Python-Dev] [Infrastructure] Snakebite build slaves and developer SSH/GPG public keys

2012-08-22 Thread R. David Murray
spit out > files or JSON or more or less whatever else you want. That isn't going to be the right set of keys for Trent's purposes (though it is likely to be a subset). The keyfile we use for the hg repository is. --David ___ Python-Dev m

Re: [Python-Dev] bug in tarfile module?

2012-08-23 Thread R. David Murray
use > > problems. > > When discussing "filemode|[compression]" modes, the docs say: > > However, such a TarFile object is limited in that it does not > allow to be accessed randomly > > I'm not a tarfile expert, but extracting a single file sounds like > random access to me. If it was the first file in the archive (or there > was only one file) it probably wouldn't count as random access. There is an open doc bug for this: http://bugs.python.org/issue10436 --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional dependencies)

2012-08-28 Thread R. David Murray
still have a (vetted) registry for "official" names, if we wanted. That would follow the MIME model. Or we can still have a separate registry, but only "qualified" (namespaced) names are open for anyone to register, without any expiration dates. -- R. David Murray If you

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional dependencies)

2012-08-28 Thread R. David Murray
xpires, and a *new* registration is entered with a different meaning, but packages still exist on PyPI that have the key with the old meaning. That seems likely to happen in practice. Or if it doesn't, then allowing for the recycling of names probably isn't important. -- R. Davi

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional dependencies)

2012-08-28 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:47:16 +0200, =?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22Martin_v=2E_L=F6wis=22?= wrote: > Am 28.08.12 18:27, schrieb R. David Murray: > > The problem Donald is asking about is: the old registration expires, > > and a *new* registration is entered with a different meaning, bu

Re: [Python-Dev] core dev IRC nicks

2012-08-29 Thread R. David Murray
and are therefore most likely to be found there, keep the same IRC handle for a long time (I've had mine, bitdancer, since 1995 or so). So I think there would be utility in such a list even if the updates were spotty. -- R. David Murray If you like the work I do for Python, you can

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional ependencies)

2012-08-31 Thread R. David Murray
xpect. It also allows for typo detection, which automatically interpreting prefix strings as extensions names would not. -- R. David Murray If you like the work I do for Python, you can enable me to spend more time doing it by supporting me here: http://gittip.com/bitdancer

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional ependencies)

2012-08-31 Thread R. David Murray
want to assign meaning to the line separators. You can do that with a custom policy and thus still be able the use the email parsing infrastructure to read and write the files. I'll be glad to help out with creating the custom policy once we've reached that stage of the process. -- R.

Re: [Python-Dev] Edits to Metadata 1.2 to add extras (optional ependencies)

2012-09-01 Thread R. David Murray
il module facilities to parse > Metadata. The policy has hooks that support this. A policy gets handed the source line complete with the line breaks, determines what gets stored in the model, and also gets to control what gets handed back to the application when a header is retrieved from th

Re: [Python-Dev] Tru64 support

2012-09-04 Thread R. David Murray
ustaining Engineering" this year. From this point on it is just "Mature Product Support". Not sure exactly what that means, other than that Tru64 is definitely a dying platform. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.

Re: [Python-Dev] Online docs: make index search available everywhere

2012-09-06 Thread R. David Murray
es is entirely controlled by Sphinx, and thus by the sources checked in to the code repository. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 15906; regression in argparse in Python 3.3, 3.2, and 2.7

2012-09-11 Thread R. David Murray
.7, which are all > affected by this bug (because the original fix for 12776 was applied to all > three branches). > > Georg, I would like to apply this to the 3.3 branch. The 12776 fix isn't going to be in 3.3, so I don't think this is a pressing issue. We can take our time to make sure we have the correct fix. It is, however, a release blocker for 2.7.4, 3.2.4, and 3.3.1. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 15906; regression in argparse in Python 3.3, 3.2, and 2.7

2012-09-11 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 11 Sep 2012 15:08:26 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote: > On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:19 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > > >The 12776 fix isn't going to be in 3.3, so I don't think this is a > >pressing issue. We can take our time to make sure we have the correct > &

Re: [Python-Dev] packaging location ?

2012-09-12 Thread R. David Murray
g. When the removal was being pondered, the possibility of keeping certain bits that were more ready than others was discussed. Perhaps the best way forward is to put it back in bits, with the most finished (and PEP relevant) stuff going in first. That might also give non-packaging people bite-siz

Re: [Python-Dev] buildbot with -O

2012-09-26 Thread R. David Murray
o set it up. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Bug Day in October

2012-09-27 Thread R. David Murray
think I for one will probably be available during the day (EST) on the 27th. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.3.0

2012-09-29 Thread R. David Murray
nge in > semantics. Any code changes required are described in the Porting Python > code <http://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.3.html#porting-python-code> > section of this document; it will only affect code that currently > manipulates import or calls it programmatically

Re: [Python-Dev] [RELEASED] Python 3.3.0 release candidate 3

2012-09-29 Thread R. David Murray
hat shouldn't be. This appears to be a Sphinx bug of some sort. The ReST source is correct. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailma

Re: [Python-Dev] Stdlib and timezones, again

2012-09-30 Thread R. David Murray
database that is hard-wired in past Pythons. > > But at worst, an outdated unicode database will be missing data right? > > Doesn't an outdated timezone db have the risk of returning *incorrect* data? Yes. And the timezeone database is much more volatile than the unicode database

Re: [Python-Dev] Stdlib and timezones, again

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
instead). Emulator? That makes no sense, I'm afraid. I think we are talking here about incorporating pytz into the stdlib. The only question is how to manage the Olson database on Windows, which has *always* been the question. --David ___ Pyt

Re: [Python-Dev] Stdlib and timezones, again

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
Gah, ignore half of that last post. I think Lennart is talking about incorporating the missing pytz *functionality* into the stdlib. --David ___ Python-Dev mailing list Python-Dev@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev

Re: [Python-Dev] Stdlib and timezones, again

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
On Mon, 01 Oct 2012 21:59:03 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote: > On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:02 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Tue, 02 Oct 2012 00:18:10 +0530, Nick Coghlan wrote: > >> Reminder to everyone: the current state of the art for getting up to > >> date tz info

Re: [Python-Dev] Python Bug Day in October

2012-10-01 Thread R. David Murray
> excellent. If they want to meet up on another date, this is also > excellent. It doesn't need to be a one time thing :) Yes. I think there are people already trying to to (or perhaps even succeeding) in arranging spaces for that date, so changing it would be a disruption to those plans.

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