On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 21:38:48 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Sep 18, 2013, at 03:00 PM, r.david.murray wrote:
>
> >http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/fb3ad8a749c8
> >changeset: 85749:fb3ad8a749c8
> >branch: 2.6
> >parent: 85735:1b673e0fd8f3
> >
idea I've heard yet. Def is
> already there; why break all existing code just for a word?
Note that whatever happens with Python4, breaking of backward
compatibility (by anything other than the deletion of cruft) is very
unlikely to be part of it.
--David
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ral case).
So the question is, is the bug in the user code, or the stdlib code?
>From the issue, it sounds like it could be considered either (or most
likely, both).
--David
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texts.[*]
As with the question of NEWS items versus checkin messages, the intended
audience, or in this case the mindset of the intended audience, is
*different*, and so the text should very often be different as well[**].
--David
[*] I posit that this is even *more* true for those who say they
t; (i.e. the exception was automatically
> > caught), without addressing the "why" (i.e. because there wasn't
> > anything else useful the interpreter could do with it)
>
> Yes, but I agree with Greg that "unraisable" is wrong. After all, it
> was raised,
the fact that an older version of Python
is already installed. But the instructions they will find on the web
for installing package X (once this change hits the field) will be to
install the newest version of 2.7 (or 3) using the python.org installer,
and then they will have the pip command
trim a MB here and a
MB there. I would have loved to have had his tools for doing that work!
Trimming linecache was one of the early big wins, even though it made
some aspects of development harder. We also cleared most of the other
caches after startup (of a long running process).
--David
PS
rmdict, since email.message
needs a list-with-case-insensitive-keyed-lookup, not a dict, because it
also preserves the original *order* of the headers. And it couldn't use
an orderedtransformdict, either, since it also has to preserve
*duplicate* headers.
--David
[*] currently it loses whitesp
On Tue, 08 Oct 2013 14:43:03 -0400, Benjamin Peterson
wrote:
> 2013/10/8 R. David Murray :
> > PS: I have always thought it sad that the ready availability of memory,
> > CPU speed, and disk space tends to result in lazy programs. I understand
> > there is an effort/value
b" to the choices and now it
> seems to work as I would like.
Please file an enhancement request at bugs.python.org.
--David
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signature lines to represent what Argument Clinic
represents with the group notation.
We don't currently have a doc solution for 'positional only' arguments.
How about a variant on the '_' markup idea:
range()
range(, [, ])
This takes advantage of the fact that th
bunch of stuff, but they don't ;)
--David
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attern
encouragement. It seems at first blush like using it with ExitStack
would make that tendency worse, so I too would like to hear more about
Nick's thoughts on the subject.
--David
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rint("hello world")
print("goodbye world")
This does not print anything, whereas for either intuitive meaning
I can think of for "ignoring" the error, it ought to print something.
You really can't *ignore* errors inside a with block.
This incorrect intuition is exactly why this is an anti-pattern.
'ignore' is an attractive nuisance.
This having occurred to me, I am now definitely -1.
--David
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with indifference_to(...):
>
> with nonchalance_regarding(...):
>
> with blithe_disdain_concerning(...):
with an_immediate_exit_from_the_with_if_we_see(...):
--David
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in the checkin header. (I note that
the issue number was also missing from this particular commit message.)
As the community referring to this stuff grows (and it has to, given
that use of the language is still growing) and the history of the
project becomes ever deeper, this kind of documentat
ly to make a large
> enough difference to make up for the additional complexity due to the code
> split.
The impact on other implementations is: what if they write an
accelerator that only replaces part of the module, whereas CPython's
replaces the whole thing?
But I think we could just postpone dealing with that until it actually
comes up, just as we would if some other implementation writes an
accelerator for a module for which CPython doesn't have one.
--David
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+1 to the below.
I don't have a strong opinion about the feature itself. The number of
times I can imagine using it in code is pretty close to zero, but
might not actually turn out to *be* zero, you never know.
But the name hurts my brain for the reasons PJ explains :)
--David
PS: I thin
t be released until all those lines are done.
try/except blocks with more than a couple lines of code are a
code smell. with replaces try/finally, not try/except.
I have no problem with Nick deciding that none of the arguments
convince him and leaving it in. We'll see how it turns out
in practi
ssertRaises, which seems like a consistency bonus.
And I could see it getting used. I think I've had code where the logic
was: possibly trap an exception, stuff it in a variable, do some logic,
check the variable to see if we had an exception earlier, and if so do
something with it or otherwise branch the logic. I won't say this is
common, and I won't say there wouldn't often be a better way to write
it...but I can think that it might have utility.
With that change, I'd be +1. With just suppress, I'm -0.
--David
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aises, which is our existing stdlib context manager that traps
exceptions.
I'd be happy with 'trap' or 'catch' without 'as' support, but the
names make more sense if the exception is actually available after
it is trapped/caught.
--David
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On Wed, 16 Oct 2013 09:24:11 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 16 Oct 2013 01:54, "R. David Murray" wrote:
> > With that change, I'd be +1. With just suppress, I'm -0.
>
> Please, please, please just let it drop. Even though it eventually
> convinced me
on on the CM so that the name 'trap' made sense, and so that
it was clear that only one exception was ever caught, and so that
the CM was parallel in functionality to the existing assertRaises
CM.
But none of this affects the code, because Nick isn't accepting the
proposal, and that
For those interested in this topic, if you are not already aware of it,
see also http://bugs.python.org/issue25958, which among other things
has a relevant proposed patch for datamode.rst.
On Tue, 07 Jun 2016 10:56:37 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Setting it to None in the subclass is the inte
straints from time to time[*].
--David
[*] Which I think the twisted folks at least would argue we shouldn't
be doing :)
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o for backward compatibility reasons, which
are consonant with its primary use case, it makes more sense for the
encoder to produce bytes than string. If you need to transmit bytes
over a unicode channel, you can decode it from ASCII. That is,
unicode is the *exceptional* use case here, not the r
On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:51:05 +1200, Greg Ewing
wrote:
> R. David Murray wrote:
> > The fundamental purpose of the base64 encoding is to take a series
> > of arbitrary bytes and reversibly turn them into another series of
> > bytes in which the eighth bit is not significant.
ologize if my choice of the mailing lists is not the best.
I tried to do this a few weeks ago myself, with similar negative
results. The only thing I tried that you don't mention (I didn't
try everything you did) is a compile from raw gdb source...and that
didn't support OSX for
Illumos, OpenIndiana et al are open source forks of Solaris.
Back before the acquisition by Oracle, Sun open sourced the Solaris OS, called
it OpenSolaris and encouraged projects to use it as an OS for x86 and other
architectures. But after the acquisition, the OpenSolaris project seemed to end
ional.
--David
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y
improvement in the more general case, with examples taken from
the standard library:
https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0548/
Unlike Larry, I don't have a prototype, and in fact if this idea
meets with approval I'll be looking for a volunteer to do the actual
implementation.
--D
On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 15:05:51 +1000, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:11 AM, R. David Murray
> wrote:
> > I've written a PEP proposing a small enhancement to the Python loop
> > control statements. Short version: here's what feels to me like a
>
cause) I made several mistakes.
Sorry for wasting anyone else's time :(
--David
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On Mon, Oct 18, 2021 at 6:49 PM Paul Moore wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2021 at 19:29, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > y = None # Default
> > if config is not None:
> > handler = config.get("handler")
> > if handler is not None:
> > parameters = handler.get("parameters")
> > if parameters is
On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:52 AM Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 05:09:42PM -0700, Michael Selik wrote:
> > None and its ilk often conflate too many qualities. For example, is it
> > missing because it doesn't exist, it never existed, or because we never
> > received a value, desp
I've moved this to python-ideas where it is more appropriate, as Chris
notes
On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 8:42 PM Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 3:23 AM David Mertz, Ph.D.
> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:52 AM Steven D'Aprano
> wrote:
>
This is an amazing document, Petr. Really great work!
I think I agree with Marc-André that putting it in the actual Python
documentation would give it more visibility than in a PEP.
On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 1:06 PM Marc-Andre Lemburg wrote:
> On 01.11.2021 13:17, Petr Viktorin wrote:
> >> PEP:
I agree with Tim. Subject, of course, to the same caveat Tim mentions: does
the creator want this?
I haven't used the library much, but it's obviously top quality, and adding
pure-Python code is less burden than C implementations.
On Wed, Nov 10, 2021, 10:19 PM Tim Peters wrote:
> [Bob Fang ]
>
On Sun, Nov 14, 2021, 2:14 PM Christopher Barker
> It's probably to deal with "é" vs "é", i.e. "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER
>> E}\N{COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT}" vs "\N{LATIN SMALL LETTER E WITH ACUTE}",
>> which are different ways of writing the same thing.
>>
>
> Why does someone that wants to use, .e.g.
On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 8:17 PM Guido van Rossum wrote:
> Why would it need to be reiterated? Are there really people who believe
> that such code would become invalid? AFAIK *everybody* here agrees that
> this should stay valid. So who would we be reiterating it for?
>
I'm certainly not alone,
On Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 11:49 AM Steven D'Aprano
> And both the download and the webpage listing the checksum are over https.
> If we don't trust https, the whole internet is broken and changing to a
> stronger checksum won't help. A hypothetical MITM attacker capable of
> breaking https and injecti
My guess is that this difference is predominantly different builds of
NumPy. For example, the Intel optimized builds are very good, and a speed
difference of the magnitude shown in this note are typical. E.g.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/developer/articles/technical/numpyscipy-with-int
Not the version, but the build. Did you compile NumPy from source using the
same compiler with both Python versions? If not, that remains my strong
hunch about performance difference.
Given what your programs do, it sure seems like the large majority of
runtime is spent in supporting numeric libra
These are binary wheel installs though, no? Which means 3.8 version and
3.10 version were compiled at different times, even for the same NumPy
version. Also for different platforms, I don't know which you are on.
I haven't checked what's on PyPI for each version. I think PyFFT is largely
using Num
I get pretty much the same thing as the OP on Chrome 99.0.4844.58; Android
11; Pixel 2 XL; Build RP1A.201005.004.A1.
However, it gets more readable if I force Desktop site and zoom a bit.
These facts are pretty common for a lot of websites, and I never gave it
much thought. But yes, the mobile ve
FWIW, I find Discourse (and everything similar that I've seen), awkward,
difficult to use, poorly organized, and in every way inferior to my mail
client.
Obviously, other people differ in opinion. Quite likely the majority of
cpython developers disagree. I don't think I'm entirely alone in this
ex
I feel similarly as Steven. I'm even less important to the development of
CPython than he is. But like him, switching to Discourse means I simply
won't try to follow development.
Mailing list are friendly and easily manageable. In the small amount I've
used Discourse, it feels unwieldy and less fr
I am writing a Rust version of Python for fun and I am at the parser stage
of development.
I copied and modified a PEG grammar ruleset from another open source
project and I've already noticed some problems (ex Newline vs NL) with how
they transcribed things.
I am suspecting that CPython's gramma
o be sure is check the code unfortunately.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Regards from rainy London,
> Pablo Galindo Salgado
>
> > On 26 Oct 2022, at 19:12, David J W wrote:
> >
> >
> > I am writing a Rust version of Python for fun and I am at the parser
> stage
re problems, is Lib/symtable.py trustworthy as a way
of building unit tests when I start implementing my own symbols graph/table?
Thanks,
David
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 11:57 PM Matthieu Dartiailh
wrote:
> If you look at pegen, that uses the stdlib tokenizer as input, you will
> se
On Thu, Feb 2, 2023 at 12:46 PM Stéfane Fermigier wrote:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_operators_and_symbols_in_Unicode
> https://oeis.org/wiki/List_of_LaTeX_mathematical_symbols
> NB: on a very basic level, I remember trying, a few years ago, to use the
> Unicode "empty set" symbo
zaar/
In particular:
What do I need?
* Bazaar 1.0 or newer. As of this writing (04-Nov-2008) Bazaar 1.8
is the most recent release. As Bazaar is written in Python (yay!),
it is available for all major platforms, See the Bazaar home page
for information about versions for your pl
ike getfirst() would be worth while here?
But you must decide if what you want really does LRU -- does accessing
the oldest entry make it the most recent entry?
--Scott David Daniels
scott.dani...@acm.org
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wrong in my local
bzr setup, or is this the expected behavior?
-- R. David Murray http://www.bitdance.com
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cond branch be the problem? I just did 'bzr branch trunk
trunk-myfix'.
Is there a way I can check if my branch is stacking capable? (I'm very
new to bzr.)
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On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 10:49, Barry Warsaw wrote:
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On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 09:30, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:02 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 08:15, Barry War
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 11:23, R. David Murray wrote:
On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 10:49, Barry Warsaw wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
On Mar 9, 2009, at 10:48 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Mar 2009 at 09:30, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > On Mar 9, 2009, at 9:02 AM, R. Dav
Symbian/S60 ? Any work around ?
Many unix systems (especially laptops) now run with the 'noatime' option
set on their file systems. On my system with noatime set, atime appears
to be equal to mtime, so assuming you have mtime, returning that for
atime would appear to be de facto s
table
for a single file should probably push back out to a full sync. This
would be trickier to accomplish if the using code had to suss out how
to get to the fp. Clearly I have plans for a ZipFile expansion, but
this could only conceivably hit 2.7, and 2.8 / 3.2 is a lot more likely.
--Scott
ggressive
to be on flushing data to disk should be in the hands of the _user_, not
the application. Of course, the application needs some way to enable
the user to make that decision, which is what I presume we are talking
about supporting here.
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On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 at 20:25, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
By the way, I would not like to see python programmers encouraged to make
the same mistake that sqlite3 made. The decision about how aggressive
to be on flushing data to disk should be in the hands
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 at 17:01, Jim Jewett wrote:
On 3/12/09, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
It is starting to look as though flush (and close?) should take an
optional wait parameter, to indicate how much re-assurance you're
willing to wait for.
Unfortunately, such a thing would be unimplementable
I have told my laptop to only sync to disk every five
minutes (as I have at times done), and it crashes (eg: the battery runs
out), then anything I did during those last five minutes will be lost.
If the disk then spins up more often than I told it to, I get very
annoyed.
d not be
calling fsync unless it provides a way for that behavior to be controlled
by the user.
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On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 00:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
Seriously, though, the point is that IMO an application should not be
calling fsync unless it provides a way for that behavior to be controlled
by the user.
But whether an application does it or not
h install process?!
And without providing any way to script the answers, at least that I
could find!)
So I'm +1 for keeping the Python stdlib as comprehensive as sensible.
(Please note that last word...I've no objection to pruning things
that are no longer serving a useful purp
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 14:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 01:02:26 pm R. David Murray wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 00:35, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
Seriously, though, the point is that IMO an application should not
be calling fsync u
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 at 12:27, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
R. David Murray bitdance.com> writes:
You will note that what
I suggested was that applications that _use the sync feature_ make
it user controllable.
I'm sorry, but if it has nothing to do with Python itself, perhaps we could s
I just noticed that the python-3000 list is still mentioned on
http://www.python.org/community/lists/. I searched around a bit
but it isn't obvious to me where other than here I should report this,
so I'm reporting it here :).
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their work can be
demonstrated. They're being paid for specific projects so "Spend the Summer
How about improving 2to3? Seems like that could be an interesting,
challenging, useful, and rewarding project :).
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d would make it less likely to be accepted?)
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workflow/ document, I would
be happy to go through and triage issues for which that hasn't yet been
done, if I can be given permission to do so.
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g for). In any case, even a charter of "unit tests to 50%
coverage" of Idle would be a huge improvement.
I've run after specific bugs in Idle, but don't really know the lay of
the land.
--Scott David Daniels
scott.dani...@acm.org
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y' (and I
just used it that way). It sounds like that is indeed correct but not
universally known, and thus I would suggest that at a minimum this status
be changed to 'close pending' to make it clearer.
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_
being considered
for addition to a release candidate or final release, perhaps we need
an additional stage 'core review' that would come after 'patch review'.
Then triage could promote issues from 'patch review' to 'core review'
if triage thinks it is ready fo
t
been packaged for my distribution, I typically will either not use it,
or I will install it somewhere other than the system default location.
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ssues in the relatively short time I worked with it, but I could feel
those issues looming in the background and it made my skin crawl :(
I'm very happy that Gentoo keeps the libraries separate when it packages
Java applications.
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hink I would be comfortable
with the current workflow, with the expectation that I would need to
call for assistance less and less frequently over time, and ultimately
only for those things where discussion among the devs really is needed.
Hmm. Maybe I should write a short "guide
r than I was expecting, and I'll
just have to step up the bar and learn to use it appropriately :)
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Nick Coghlan wrote:
Collin Winter wrote:
That would be a bikeshed discussion of such
magnitude, you'd have to invent new colors to paint the thing.
Octarine. Definitely octarine :)
I'm not so sure of the color itself, but its name should definitely
rhyme with "orange.&
icy is before
doing that since it is a 'security' bug.
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On Sun, 29 Mar 2009 at 08:35, Gregory P. Smith wrote:
It'd be worthy of fixing in 2.6 since the module exists. Though honestly...
who cares about Irix?
Guido commented on the ticket and closed it, so I closed the other two like it.
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:)
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py3k as well, but there will be
no backport.
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a difference on all
platforms.
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like the
2.6 _csv module should be handling that, and certainly intended to
handle it.
--David
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mory is good, that's from the _socketobject class in
socket.py.
--David
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to trunk that seem to indicate this case is
handled correctly in terms of preserving the data. Maybe you didn't
write the file such that the fields with the newlines were quoted?
And of course how non-Excel applications handle that data on import
can be
OK, Antoine, having merged my newline tests to py3k and having
them work when lineend is set to '', as you suggested on the
ticket, I'm inclined to agree with you that this is a doc bug.
Skip?
--David
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On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 at 07:23, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
Le mercredi 01 avril 2009 ?? 18:22 -0400, R. David Murray a ??crit :
I just added some tests to trunk that seem to indicate this case is
handled correctly in terms of preserving the data. Maybe you didn't
write the file such that the f
ically,
there's nothing saying that a "reversed" version is tried.
a == b
So, python calls a.__eq__(b)
Now, that function does:
a.key == b
Since b is an object with an __eq__ method, python calls
b.__eq__(a.key).
That function does:
a.key == b.key
ie: the OP's code is ineff
On Mon, 6 Apr 2009 at 12:00, Jesse Noller wrote:
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Apr 6, 2009, at 9:21 AM, Jesse Noller wrote:
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 4:33 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
On 2009-04-02 17:32, Martin v. L?wis wrot
s, and tools to strip whitespace off the end of lines as
information-destroying.
--Scott David Daniels
scott.dani...@acm.org
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d, but the tests were not updated to match. I haven't yet
gotten as far as figuring out why the changes were made, but svn blames
josiah.carlson for the changes (or at least the most recent ones).
--David
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es'.decode('utf-8')
...because only you know what encoding those bytes use!
So you're saying that __setitem__() should not accept raw bytes?
If I'm understanding things correctly, if it did accept bytes the
person using that interface would need to do whatever encod
On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 at 11:28, Greg Ewing wrote:
Barry Warsaw wrote:
For an Originator or Destination address, what does str(header) return?
It should be an error, I think.
That doesn't make sense to me. str() should return
_something_.
--
n, not the 'file and directory access section',
which makes it a little harder to find when what you think you want to
know about is file access...I think this is a doc bug but I'm completely
unsure what would be a good fix.
--David
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e, it's non-associative, which is a
much rarer and more surprising thing. We do
at least have
('1' + '2') + '3' == '1' + ('2' + '3')
But we don't have:
(1e40 + -1e40) + 1 == 1e40 + (-1e40 + 1)
Non-associativity is
-platform on a VCS is a major PITA, and
py3k is currently not helping the situation.
You're concerns are valid, but I don't see anything in the PEP about
removing the bytes APIs.
Yeah, but IIRC a complete set of bytes APIs doesn't exist yet in
On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 at 21:21, "Martin v. L?wis" wrote:
Yeah, but IIRC a complete set of bytes APIs doesn't exist yet in py3k.
Define complete. I'm not aware of any interfaces wrt. file IO that are
lacking, so which ones were you thinking of?
Python doesn't currently provide a way to access env
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