ink I actually use any of them.
But! Our goal should be to help people convert to Python3. So how can
we find out what the specific problems are that real-world programs are
facing, look at the *actual code*, and help that project figure out the
best way to make that code work in both python2
xt-io
machinery count them for deciding when to trigger io/buffering behavior,
you use newline=''.
It's not the most intuitive API, so I won't be surprised if a lot of
people don't know about it or get confused by it when they see it.
I first learned about it in the context
On Sun, 12 Jan 2014 17:51:41 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 12 January 2014 04:38, R. David Murray wrote:
> > But! Our goal should be to help people convert to Python3. So how can
> > we find out what the specific problems are that real-world programs are
> > facing, loo
Hi,
I am Nachshon and this is my first post to the python mailing list.
I have been porting some libraries from python 2 to python 3 recently with
the goal of a common codebase that will run on both versions. I was
thinking it would make my life, and a lot of other developers as well, a
lot easier
On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote:
>
> On 12 Jan 2014 23:39, "Nachshon David Armon"
> wrote:
>>
>> I propose that this new version of python use the python 3 unicode model.
>> As the version of python will be fully compatible with both
types. (Those that have one would implement __bytes__).
And what would be the __brepr__ of an arbitrary 'object'?
Faced with the impracticality of defining __brepr__ usefully in any "pure
bytes" form, it seems sensible to admit that the most useful __brepr__
is the ascii() encodi
On Mon, 13 Jan 2014 17:38:38 -0800, Ethan Furman wrote:
> Has anyone actually used __bytes__ yet? What for?
bytes(email.message.Message()) returns the message object serialized to
"wire format".
--David
PS: I've always thought of "wire format" as *including* file
r maybe
I'm asking the difference between ByteString and ASCIIByteString?
So the only concrete classes would be ASCIIByteStringsthat might
work. It would give us something to call that argument type in, eg,
the binascii docs. Not to mention a formal definition of what
methods a Python b
Your best bet for getting an
answer would probably be the python-list mailing list/newsgroup.
--David
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On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 13:20:48 -0500, Brett Cannon wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 12:27 PM, r.david.murray
> wrote:
>
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/b3f034f5000f
> > changeset: 4:b3f034f5000f
> > parent: 2:19d81cc213d7
> > user:R David
On Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:09:53 +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2014 11:36, "r.david.murray" wrote:
> >
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/2d5544afb510
> > changeset: 89547:2d5544afb510
> > user:R David Murray
> > date:
hive?
>
> __file__ is expected to always be set (including when loaded from a zipfile
> - in that case it's the zipfile name concatenated with the path within the
> zip file). If it isn't set, there's a buggy loader involved somewhere that
> isn&#x
precate and remove things as
appropriate, irregardless of version number. I used "4.0" in my
message about 'U' as a shorthand for "some time after python2
is no longer an issue". Sorry for the confusion. (That said, I
do see some merit to doing some extra cleaning at
n't copied into
rc3. They will be in final though, unless Larry forgets. You can see
them here:
http://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.4.html
--David
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project since
Final is almost upon us. I'll be making at least one more copy-edit
pass over the document, and may reformat some stuff, but the content is
pretty much set at this point.
If anyone knows of anything that is missing, please let me know about
it.
--David
I track my time as a ha
On Tue, 11 Mar 2014 10:15:21 +0100, Georg Brandl wrote:
> Am 11.03.2014 08:00, schrieb Ned Deily:
> > In article ,
> > Georg Brandl wrote:
> >
> >> Am 11.03.2014 06:31, schrieb Ned Deily:
> >> > In article
> >> > ,
> >> > Ni
*exactly* what is in the
release is a lost cause unless you look at the commit log :) Especially
since the revision that contains the commit related to those added
news entries does *not* contain the news entry I added, so if you had
a tarball built from that revision you wouldn't have that news
gt; print(sa)
(a, b=2)
>>> ba = sa.bind(1, 2)
>>> b(*ba.args, **ba.kwargs)
1 2
Note: I said *almost* :) But the point is that we found that the fact
that we couldn't give this thing in parens a name bothersome enough
to partially fix it.
--David
_
ure
> there's much you can to to save them. ;p
I opened issue 20913 to request that some sort of "best practices"
documentation be added either to the SSL docs or as a separate chapter
in the library reference.
I do not feel competent to adjust the content of the security entrie
know Victor found
something he wanted to change (add?) to the API just recently.
--David
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often write a unit test that makes
sure that the piece of information I just added to the message is really
in the message ('%o', in this case), using assertRaisesRegex. I don't
think it is required, but I like to do it, because it would indeed be
a regression if that inform
Regex(TypeError, '%X format: an integer is
> > required, not float','%X'.__mod__, 2.11),
> > self.assertRaisesRegex(TypeError, '%o format: an integer is
> > required, not float','%o'.__mod__, 1.79),
> >
>
.but it is a much narrower impact area than "most
python software that uses ssl", and certainly doesn't cover poplib,
smtplib, etc.
But perhaps I am being overly cynical.
Regardless, like Martin, I prefer to focus on Python3.
--David
___
On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 21:43:14 +0100, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2014 20:47:28 +0100 (CET)
> r.david.murray wrote:
> > http://hg.python.org/cpython/rev/ec556e45641a
> > changeset: 89936:ec556e45641a
> > user:R David Murray
> > date:
;s earlier work laid essential groundwork,
but by itself I'm not sure that would have been enough to result in calls
for a backport. It took both of them, with some help from others as well.
--David
[*] I actually don't know if this was discussed on python-dev previously
because I'
those are much more likely
to be actually going over a "wire" of some sort (ie: places you really
don't want to use eval even when it would work).
So yeah, I think %a has *practical* utility.
--David
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other hand, we have multiprocessing examples in the docs that are
longer than that, so it sounds like a great asyncio example to me,
especially given that Victor says we don't have enough examples yet.
--David
[*] https://pypi.python.org/pypi/first It'
> (untested?) reimplementation of multiprocessing pipes, with weird
> architecture choices (RPCServer is actually a client?).
I think instead we might call a "pre" implementation :)
I'm pretty sure this Idle stuff existed before multiprocessing did.
(In English, 'reimplemen
on 4 plans ATM.
I think Python4 is just what follows python 3.9, myself :).
More seriously, I don't believe there should ever be a Py4k the way there
was a Py3k, and would prefer not to feed any rumours that there might be.
--David
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er that can be any character and defaults to a space
> > if omitted," so I'm inclined to call this a good old fashioned bug.
>
> I'd say it's a bug. Please open a bug, assign it to me (eric.smith), and
> I'll comment on it there.
There is an existing bug report (assigned to you :), with a partial patch:
http://bugs.python.org/issue12546
--David
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So, yeah, pretty much what Terry said about library code
versus application code. That is, after all, what duck typing is about,
and there is a *reason* we use it.
--David
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ent (although related) skill to that of
writing good patches.
Or to put it another way, I'd like to encourage contributors who
want to get commit access to focus just as much on doing good reviews as
they do on writing new patches. Currently the focus is all on
getting patches a
of course check in with python-dev and/or python-committers
as appropriate.
--David
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t, with
some secondary links that take you to one of the links I found above,
or other less useful ones...but none of the top google links are to a
page that directly contains a link for downloading a windows installer,
not even the one labeled 'Windows'.
There is an 'Installing P
y big deal here.
As I understand it, there is a *new* (pilot?) comp-sci related AP test
that is using Python. Jessica expects the existing compsci AP tests
may move to Python at some point, but her timeframe was fairly long for
that one.
--David
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n
possibly-accidentally-persistent data structure) and only move to the
C level once I'd ruled out a python source for the "leak".
Unless you are dealing with a wholly or primarily C module, of course :)
--David
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x27;1` itself.
How you spell this I don't really care, but I think the above is the
most common use case.
--David
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round operators look pretty good to me.
My unix fix-width terminal font handles most unicode (even a lot of
non-bmp stuff...though I have no idea if it is readable :).
I have no idea what font it is, to tell you the truth.
--David
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': [1, 2, 3]})
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> File "", line 1, in
> TypeError: non-empty format string passed to object.__format__
>
>
> Is this intentional?
Yes. There was a deprecation warning for this in 3.3, and it
is now an error in 3.4.
For more
insecure.
You probably want something like "and access to it may be unreliable".
--David
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On Thu, 08 May 2014 10:11:39 -0400, "R. David Murray"
wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2014 09:58:08 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
> > I don't think the warning is FUD, and it doesn't mention anything security
> > related at all. The exact text of the warning is i
ume, control
the 'external packages' flag) who would be seeing that? Maybe you mean
something by deployment different from how I use the word?
--David
[*] I found it *such* a pain to do this for perl/cpan. I have a
project for a customer where I have to do this, and the hoops I had
to j
On Thu, 08 May 2014 11:32:28 -0400, Donald Stufft wrote:
> On May 8, 2014, at 11:21 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > Ah, I understand now.
> >
> > Your perspective is as someone who is using pip for *deployment*.
>
> Deployment, or any kind of situation where you
re from
their local copy.
As another point of information for comparison, Gentoo downloads files
from wherever they are hosted first, and only if that fails falls back to
a Gentoo provided mirror (if I remember correctly...I think the Gentoo
mirror copy doesn't always exist?).
--David
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These changes appear to have caused several builbot failures, and
there doesn't appear to be a bugs.python.org issue to report it to.
One failure example:
http://buildbot.python.org/all/builders/PPC64%20PowerLinux%203.4/builds/119
test_asyncio fails similarly for me on tip.
On Mon, 12 May 20
t an official policy written down in a PEP (yes, I can write it)?
> > Should I keep closing these patches and saying that we are not adding
> > support for new operating systems and be hand-wavy about it?
In addition to a maintainer (who I think doesn't have to b
ng
red was a release blocker. But we could decide to ignore a red 'niche'
buildbot at release time; so, I think 'stable' vs 'unstable' is indeed
the most descriptive: unstable buildbots are the ones that turn red
"randomly"[*], or are always red because no o
re a) working with an mutable object, and b) that
> the method changes the internal state. But the .pop() example demonstrates
> that a method can both return something meaningful, and change internal
> state, so I'm not sure it's really a distinction worth making.
&
oPython can help us fix them, just as PyPy did/does.
--David
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e nosy list completion).
Done. There are two other people in the nosy list (Giapaolo and
Antoine). If either of those wish to be auto-nosy, let me know.
--David
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flow.
My understanding is that part of the purpose of the "provisional"
designation is to allow faster evolution (read: fixing) of an API before
the library becomes non-provisional. Thus I agree with Guido here, and
will be doing something similar with at least one of the minor provi
On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:05:52 -0400, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le 06/06/2014 07:00, R. David Murray a écrit :
> >
> > I don't have any opinion on the workflow.
> >
> > My understanding is that part of the purpose of the "provisional"
> > designation i
as I'm not a windows dev) we're
going to want to switch VS versions for 3.5 anyway, so switching to the
cutting edge one but where Steve can be and is willing to be in a tight
feedback loop with the developers sounds like a win to me.
--David
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t and fragile.
>
> What do you guys suggest?
I seem to remember a previous discussion that concluded that duck typing
based on _fields was the way to go. (It's a public API, despite the _,
due to name-tuple's attribute namespacing issues.)
--David
_
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 10:50:16 -0400, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Le 07/06/2014 09:25, R. David Murray a écrit :
> > On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:50:57 +0100, Chris Withers
> > wrote:
> >> I've been trying to add support for explicit comparison of namedtuples
> >> int
ht tradeoff. Although, if key bits end
up working at the C level, "contributing back" might require writing
separate C for CPython, so that might not happen.
--David
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Also notice that using a list with shell=True is using the API
incorrectly. It wouldn't even work on Linux, so that torpedoes
the cross-platform concern already :)
This kind of confusion is why I opened http://bugs.python.org/issue7839.
On Wed, 11 Jun 2014 16:58:30 -0500, Ryan wrote:
> Of cours
ython.org/issue16353 for a proposal to create a standard
way to figure out what the system shell should be for Popen's use.
(The conclusion for Windows was to hardcode cmd.exe, though
that isn't what the most recent patch there implements.)
--David
_
I also haven't the faintest idea what might be intended by the phrase "I
pretend your immediate excuses".
But whatever the intention, it is clear Marco has veered off into angry
ranting territory. Him taking a couple weeks away from this list would be
an extremely good idea.
On Sun, Aug 15, 2021,
I attempted to do this today, as my first actual contribution to CPython
itself. I think the prior attempt went down a wrong path, which is why
neither PR could actually pass tests.
I've been looking at `posixmodule.c` for comparison, specifically. The key
thing, I believe, is not to use `PyObje
is already occurring when passed a PosixPath.
On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:49 AM Serhiy Storchaka wrote:
> 08.09.21 08:19, David Mertz, Ph.D. пише:
> > I attempted to do this today, as my first actual contribution to CPython
> > itself. I think the prior attempt went down a wrong
I know I'm strongly -1 on allowing much more than currently exists for
f-strings. For basically the same reason Stephen explains.
Newlines inside braces, for example, go way too far away from readability.
Nested expressions also feel like an attractive nuisance. I use f-strings
all the time, but i
o mention that the test suite is a bit sparse for Idle, despite
recent efforts to improve this, even for the stuff that can be tested.
--David
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it's been a *long* time since I looked at XML :)
(Wikipedia says: "Programs for reading documents may not be required to
read the external subset.", which would seem to confirm that.)
--David
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orking with them.
See also http://bugs.python.org/issue16801#msg178542 for another use
case for named values.
I've seen an awful lot of code that uses global variables or class
attributes primarily to get name validation on constant values, a
On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 08:27:50 -0800, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 7:57 AM, R. David Murray wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 01:31:09 +1000, Nick Coghlan
> > wrote:
> > > On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 1:06 AM, Antoine Pitrou
> > wrote:
> >
nd now os.SEEK_* gain
> useful string representations when printed.
Eh, what? Why does int have to be called? (Hrm, I guess I'd better
read the PEP before making any more comments :)
I'm preferring Named Values more and more. And I'm just as interested
in the returned values
would decrease the surprise factor.
Either that, or name them something other than "enum".
If they aren't ints and they aren't orderable, it seems to me they are
just a set of names. Which if we had labeled values, could be implemented
as...a set of names.
--David
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n
> enumeration that attempts to (at least logically) restrict a value to a set
> of pre-defined entities.
>
> That said, I'm slowly starting to realize that enums try to impose a bit of
> static typing on Python, which may be th
.
Of course, this is just me talking, we only have a *very* vague "sense of
the house" for what Python4 means at this point :)
--David
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be as
> > good as a handwritten signature, and I don't want to legitimize them by
> > using them.
> >
>
> At the bottom of the CLA page there are instructions on how to still use
> the paper form.
Then there also needs to be a way to ACK the popup s
aybe think about changing).
Most likely the commit's author, Victor Stinner, will see your message
or this one and respond. That particular change recently came up (by
implication) in another context (unicode singletons...)
--David
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other open cookiejar issues we can tackle at the same time.
If, that is, you are interested enough to continue to be the point person
for this, which probably won't be a short process :)
The problem here is getting people interested, apparently :(
Since I start my Pycon diversion-from-w
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 22:46:26 -0700, Demian Brecht
wrote:
> On 2013-03-10 1:59 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> I was hoping that there would be a little more interest (and potentially
> some further historical context on why the module was implemented as it
> was) from those in th
On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 03:16:53 -,
=?utf-8?B?S3Jpc3Rqw6FuIFZhbHVyIErDs25zc29u?= wrote:
> The compiler complains about this line:
> if (c == '\n' | c=='\r') {
>
> Perhaps you wanted a Boolean operator?
Indeed, yes.
--David
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er ways to encourage
and coordinate more contributions to various pieces of Python and its
standard library. But that is a much bigger conversation.
--David
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ed things that were removed in
What's New.
Aside: given the 3.3 experience, I think people should be thinking in
terms of always updating What's New when appropriate, at the time a
commit is made.
--David
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Thank you for your contributions, and we look forward to anything else
you may choose to contribute!
--David
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On Thu, 21 Mar 2013 01:19:42 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 3/20/2013 2:13 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
> > On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 05:23:43 -0700, Eli Bendersky wrote:
> >> A mention in Misc/NEWS can't hurt here, Terry. Even though it's
> >> undocumented, some
siest to maintain and works well when cutting-and-pasting
> the comments from somewhere else.
Just FYI it is also very easy in vim: gq plus whatever movement prefix
suits the situation.
--David
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http://mai
ain that even if the coverage were at
100% code-and-branch coverage, there'd still be tests worth adding,
if you are as familiar with the modules as your intro suggests :)
However, if you are writing new tests, please write them against
the default branch, which means urllib in P
Trent is doing in his parallel Python work.
--David
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different semantics.
> Apparently on 2.X sizehint does not have any effect as far as I can see.
Have you played with large enough hints/small enough buffers?
--David
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impending end of 2.7 bugfix releases.
In fact (except for IDLE, which I don't use myself but I really want to
see improved), I would be fine if this *had* been the last 2.7 bugfix
release :)
--David
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On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 11:48:28 -0400, "R. David Murray"
wrote:
> (much more if the fix doesn't apply cleanly), and I find myself more and
> more likely to say "well, it's been that way in Python2 for a long while,
> fixing it there is more likely to break things
raise AppError(code)
In talking to an existing internet protocol it would be natural to use
IntEnum and this issue would not arise, but I have recently worked on
an application that had *exactly* the above sort of enumeration used
internally, when it would have been totally appro
y I included the bit about iterating the values. The ordering
*is* defined. I find it much more surprising for that ordering to
be inaccessible via the comparison operators.
I think either the iteration order should be undefined (like a set
or dict), or
'm more concerned that the API be internally
consistent. I presume that one could always define an Enum subclass
and provide comparison methods if desired :)
--David
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st feels more right to me in this case.
I think TypeError is more consistent with the rest of Python:
>>> object() < object()
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
TypeError: unorderable types: object() < object()
You get that automatically if you re
nd give up on having a sorted iteration and a stable repr:
>>> import enum
>>> class Foo(enum.Enum):
...aa = 1
...bb = 2
...cc = 'hi'
>>> Foo
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "", line 1, in
File "./enum.py", line 10
lues be
sortablebut that point you really have no excuse for not allowing
enum values to be compared :)
--David
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On Fri, 12 Apr 2013 18:35:58 -0400, Barry Warsaw wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2013, at 05:17 PM, R. David Murray wrote:
>
> >Now, you could *further* require that the type of enum values be
> >sortablebut that point you really have no excuse for not allowing
> >enum values to
oving it. But as I said, I'm not enough of a Windows expert to be
comfortable making that decision.
I'm glad this was brought up on python-dev; it's been nagging at me
that this issue hasn't been getting resolved.
--David
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em)
> ...
> B.a
> B.b
> B.c
> >>> from flufl.enum import IntEnum
> >>> C = IntEnum('C', 'c b a')
> >>> C
>
> >>> for item in C: print(item)
> ...
> C.c
> C.b
> C.a
I think definition order would be much
hat case I don't see a way
> to do it - getting definition order relies on __prepare__ returning an
> ordered dict, and __prepare__ of course is only available in 3.x.
It seems strange to limit a new Python3 feature to the Python2 feature
set. Just saying :)
--David
_
t; :)
Regardless of the specific values involved, it is pretty much guaranteed
that if anything other than definition order is used we *will* get bug
reports/enhancement requests to fix it, on a regular basis. We can choose
to live with that, but we should admit that it will will happen :)
--Dav
se information. So yes,
that encoder does still make sense. It would also be useful as a
transform function, but as someone has pointed out there's an issue
for that.
--David
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indeed been asked in the past.)
(One answer is that they used to work in Python2...but the longer we go
without restoring the functionality to Python3, the weaker that particular
argument becomes.)
--David
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On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 22:29:33 +0900, "Stephen J. Turnbull"
wrote:
> R. David Murray writes:
>
> > You transform *into* the encoding, and untransform *out* of the
> > encoding. Do you have an example where that would be ambiguous?
>
> In the bytes-to
; isinstance(C.a, C)
> False
> >>> isinstance(C(1), C)
> False
>
> It would really be better if instances were actual instances of the
> class, IMO.
The first False looks correct to me, I would not expect an enum value to
be
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